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8.5 Product & Service Provision

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by FoolowArrow, Oct 28, 2019.

  1. FoolowArrow

    FoolowArrow Member

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    I am currently writing a ISO 9001:2015 QMS program for a manufacturing plant. Servicing happens in the field, which is not in the scope, and does not happen at the plant. Do I have to write something on servicing or can I state this is not done at the manufacturing location.
     
  2. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    If it's not in the scope of your QMS, then you don't have to state anything.
     
  3. FoolowArrow

    FoolowArrow Member

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    Fabulous!! Thank you.
     
  4. yodon

    yodon Active Member

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    Maybe I'm misunderstanding but it sounds like servicing IS in scope of their QMS; just not something done at the facility?
     
  5. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    I took this statement to mean it's not in the scope. Of course, there's always caveats. If a major source of issues is the service part of the business (looking at the context of the organization it represents issues, let's say) then maybe it should be IN the scope.
     
  6. FoolowArrow

    FoolowArrow Member

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    We are a manufacturing plant that ships finished product to our field stations. Field stations are the ones that have the dealings with the end users and can do servicing at that time.
    We want the manufacturing plant only to be ISO certified in the coming months, due to customer requirements. Customers are not requesting the field stations to have ISO, just the manufacturing plant.
    Thoughts?
     
  7. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Well, customers don't always understand what they want. Sure, if product quality is paramount. However, as stated before, are there business reasons to include the service centers in a QMS? Does the servicing get done the same way, site to site? If you measure their performance, is it comparable? Does the customer notice? Do you see it in the operational costs which can be attributed to the servicing processes and so on...
     
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  8. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    Are the field stations, including its people, under one company? Can you disclose the nature of your product for better appreciation of the QFO members?
     
  9. FoolowArrow

    FoolowArrow Member

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    We are a new start up company that manufactures continuous rod for the oil & gas sector. We have a field station that the rod is sent to and then the field station does any servicing with it for the customer.
    We want to be ISO 9001 certified for the manufacturing portion of the company only due to time constraints and cost. Non of our customers require our field stations to be certified.
     
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  10. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Makes sense.
     
  11. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    In defining the scope, clause 4.3 specifies that organizations need to consider a) issues, b) requirements of interested parties and c) its products and services. The issues you have already mentioned are about time and costs. Other issues could be documentation and standardization of processes (e.g. documented controls are more well in place in the manufacturing than in the servicing functions). So, the remaining questions that you will need to answer with resolve will include:
    • is it alright with our customers that the rods are manufactured by an ISO 9001 certified manufacturing system but servicing is not included?;
    • can our ISO 9001 certified manufacturing system fulfill the requirements of our customers?;
    • what about the requirements in servicing by the field stations?;
    • since support processes such as HR and Documentation are common to the manufacturing plant and field stations, do we need to implement the same approach?;
    • is it okay that CB auditors will only look into how we handle nonconformities in our manufacturing plant and pay no attention in servicing-related nonconformities?;
    • is it okay with the field stations that they cannot claim certification since they are excluded in the scope?
     
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  12. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    Good point @tony s

    @FoolowArrow
    In your original post you mention "I am...do I have to...can I state..."

    In a later post you state..."Customers are not requesting the field stations to have ISO, just the manufacturing plant."

    I am curious as to your top management's position, involvement, and ownership in this process. What does TOP MANAGEMENT wish to accomplish? Does top management want the organization to benefit from the ISO 9001 registration, or simply pencil whip a costly program simply because the customer has required it?

    Within ISO 9001:2015 there are eight references to TOP MANAGEMENT.
    Within ISO 9001:2015 there are 24 "shalls" associated with TOP MANAGEMENT.

    As long as it is not stipulated by the customer, you can exclude service from the scope . However, I would council that your organization's top management needs to be aware of the content of the standard and establish what they wish to achieve from being registered to ISO 9001.

    Hope this helps.
    Be well.
     
  13. FoolowArrow

    FoolowArrow Member

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    Thank you for the response. The objective for 2020 is for the manufacturing plant to be certified. Once that is established, we will move to the field stations in the following years. I/Top Management are very well aware of the requirements in the standard relating to Top Management and have addressed the issue in our Risk Matrix.
     
  14. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    You know that's not what the standard requires, right. It's not the purpose of section 4. Context. It's FAR simpler...
     
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