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5.2 1 a nc, in policy in transition to 2015?

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by Qualmx, Feb 3, 2018.

  1. Qualmx

    Qualmx Well-Known Member

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    Hi everybody
    While been audited, the auditor raised a minor nc, because according his perception the quality policy was not appropriate.
    The reason , it was very generic, it could be used in any business,he suggested to specify what the company does, our business is a shoe and bags producer.
    Please give some input.
    I see this like an improvement, not a nc
    At what extent , we have to reflect the business in a policy, moreover when policy is too short (3 paragraphs )?
    Thanks
     
  2. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

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    If you provide the details it may be easier to advise. But I would say you'd be hard pressed to find a nc on a quality policy. Most are short and sweet. They refer to meeting customer expectations, continuous improvement and such.
     
  3. Qualmx

    Qualmx Well-Known Member

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    Thanks
    Lets say
    Policy says
    Company A deliver high quality products, our people is responsible with client.
    We practice the continual improvement.
    Is something like this , in this point he told we had to specify "shoes and bags"when mentioning products.
    I just mentioned one paragraph,where he raised the nc.
    Thanks
     
  4. BradM

    BradM Moderator Staff Member

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    We have spilled much ink here and at the Cove in quality policies. I am becoming of the mindset that quality policies cause more trouble than any value they give.

    On this subject I would be very interested to ascertain how the auditor came to the conclusion that the quality policy is too short; and then to claim it's an NC.

    I agree that it's an improvement. It sounds like the auditor wants to write your Quality Policy. :)
     
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  5. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    I'd agree, until "Context of the Organization" came along. To address the OP - the auditor is waaaay out of place on this.
     
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  6. Qualmx

    Qualmx Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Brad and Andy

    Well, he didnt refer that policy is short, what he told us is that we have make the policy like "proprietary"
    I mean to describe into the policy, the products we produce (shoes and bags)

    Thanks
     
  7. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    That's rubbish and he/she clearly doesn't know the policy from the scope. I'd send the CB a complaint saying their auditor is clearly incompetent.
     
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  8. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Active Member

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    @Andy Nichols is absolutely correct on this topic. It is fair and appropriate to request "what's the rule?" for all nonconformances issued by a registrar.

    i.e. Clause 5.2.1 States, "...shall...quality policy that:
    a) "...appropriate to the purpose..."
    b) "...framework for setting ...objectives"
    c) "...commitment to satisfy applicable requirements"
    d) "...commitment to continually improve"

    It is fair and appropriate to request that the registrar clearly state the gap between these rules and your quality policy. Only gaps between the two can be subject to a non-conformance.
     
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  9. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    Section 3.6.9 of ISO 9000:2015 defines nonconformity as "non-fulfillment of a requirement". Therefore there must be a requirement first before an auditor can decide that there is a nonconformity. Ask the auditor, "Can you point to me the specific statement in the standard that requires the mention of products and services in the quality policy?"
     
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  10. Qualmx

    Qualmx Well-Known Member

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    Hanks Tonys
    I think that the Standard is not too clear in 5 2.1 a) is appropriate to....., I mean it could be added a lot of few definitions, it doesn't specify the detail, so auditor can't take good decisions.
    But it was the only risen, So I took it as an opportunity to take a minor adjustmement .
    Do you think is good decision on my side?
    Thanks
     
  11. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    Actually, I also agree that the organization's products and services are mentioned within the statement of the quality policy. But I cannot agree that by not mentioning would constitute a nonconformity.
     
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  12. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

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    This is a good case for a dispute. I see no value in trying to grade the verbiage in a Quality Policy. There are so many more important things to focus on.
     
  13. Qualmx

    Qualmx Well-Known Member

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    Tonys
    What would you answer to an auditor ,ln this case if he tells you that is not appropiate.
    I wonder What exactly we have to mention on it,in order to be appropiated?
    Thanks
     
  14. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    I'll ask him:
    1. Define "appropriate".
    2. Where in the standard that prohibits the use of generic statement like "deliver quality products"?
    3. Is "delivery of quality products" not "appropriate" to our organization's "purpose"?
    4. Can you define "nonconformity"?
    5. Do you know that to establish a nonconformity there must be a requirement first?
    6. Again, "Can you point to me the specific statement in the standard that requires the mention of products and services in the quality policy?"
     
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