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4.4.1 ..."...shall determine the processes needed..."

Discussion in 'Process Audits and Layered Process Audits' started by leyladonmez, Jan 4, 2021.

  1. leyladonmez

    leyladonmez Member

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    Hi,

    In our company, both process audit and layered process audit are performed. They both have their own checklist. Since there is a process control in LPA, can we combine the checklists of my two inspections and continue on our way only as LPA? Or do we have to do both LPA and process audit separately?

    thank you.
     
  2. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    LPAs do not meet the 9.2 requirements under ISO 9001 not IATF 16949. They are NOT QMS audits, they aren't done by competent auditors, the LPA process is supposed to owned by manufacturing and that means it's NOT independent (objective and impartial) the list goes on...

    Auditing (manufacturing) processes isn't the same as doing LPA which is more about "following the process" and omits a lot of key QMS requirements, as a result.
     
    leyladonmez likes this.
  3. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    Good day @leyladonmez ;
    I see you have posted this in the ISO 9001:2015 forum. If this is where you meant to post it, then be aware that ISO 9001 does not speak to or require LPA. ISO 9001 does also not delineate "mfg process audits" (although it does speak to "process" auditing as part of the need to priority based on importance, etc...).

    I would assume from your original post that, at minimum, your organization is ISO 9001 certified and you have a customer (or your internal QMS requirements) that stipulates LPA be performed. If this is the case, then the short answer is "yes", you can indeed combine LPA with process audits. However, ...

    LPA: keep in mind the intent of LPA is to give a BRIEF overview...by and for layers of leadership, to determine if the general corporate intent is being carried out.
    Most leadership members will not have the time nor interest in diving deep into the mfg process vs requirements.

    (Mfg) Process audits: By intent, these are generally a much "deeper dive' than a typical LPA. In IATF/automotive circles, it is typical to use the Control Plan as an audit map to follow for verifying of the risks have associated controls, and that those controls are in place as intended.

    Please advise if your organization is IATF certified.

    Hope this helps.

    Be well.
     
  4. leyladonmez

    leyladonmez Member

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    thank you
     

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