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Linkage between QMS and remote process such as sales

Discussion in 'IATF 16949:2016 - Automotive Quality Systems' started by bbzenzof, Sep 22, 2015.

  1. bbzenzof

    bbzenzof Member

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    We have here a question on how to integrate the remote process for Sales, can we just create a procedure about sales that is a remote process or necessary to amend the linkage between Sales and our QMS..this was not raised before and what they only ask from us is the ISO/TS Certificate of our Business Unit, however I have apprehension on how other Auditors will interpret....Thanks in Advance
     
    bbzenzof, Sep 22, 2015
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  2. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    A process is a process. Where it's carried out is almost immaterial. Why are you trying to satisfy and auditor? What is the issue behind asking this question?
     
    Andy Nichols, Sep 22, 2015
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  3. bbzenzof

    bbzenzof Member

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    Hello Andy, by next month we will have our Re-certification Audit and this is one of the many...they asking from us
    - Please send us the current process environmentalist and process map showing linkages and
    interactions of the process (including the linkages and interfaces to any remote support functions and/or
    outsourced processes),
     
    bbzenzof, Sep 22, 2015
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  4. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

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    In a former position, we included our remote Sales locations within our QMS scope. Considering they were vital to acquiring and communicating Customer requirements, it seemed pretty important to include them. Working with the Sales team, we discussed why our QMS was important to business and how Sales helped to support us. Not to mention, maintaining our certification gave them a "selling point" to support them. They explained their processes to us - we documented what we needed to within our own system, but as they were remote, we excluded them from needing to follow our document control system. We had a Quality Manual and kept them on the approval list as well as the distribution list. We audited them as a process within our system. We included them in our corrective action process, when required.

    Over time, as more productions sites went the route of ISO 9001, a wall of Quality Policies was formed...and this eventually progressed to a corporate certification under which all the sites and corporate functions (e.g., sales, procurement, etc.) fell.
     
    RoxaneB, Sep 22, 2015
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  5. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    So, if I understand, you've BEEN/ARE certified and they are only now asking for this? Why? The TS requirements haven't changed (recently) so what could be the reason? Do you have what they're asking for? Did you have this previously for their auditor?
     
    Andy Nichols, Sep 22, 2015
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  6. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

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    I know that in my organization's situation, we used to have a sales team led and operating out of our site. As our company expanded and merged, Sales was centralized to a US location and a Canadian location - the idea of "one call does it all" for our Customers. Our Registrar was aware of this and worked with us, recognizing that it was going to take a bit of time for the Sales process to be ironed out. I think we had one external audit during that time. We showed them the high level plan with regard to the Sales re-organization and impact to our site. That satisfied as it demonstrated planning and management involvement, etc. etc.
     
    RoxaneB, Sep 22, 2015
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  7. bbzenzof

    bbzenzof Member

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    Thanks to Roxane and Andy....

    Actually in our QMS the Sales was not included and in the Business interface & linkages it was not also reflected, No idea yet what would be the impact.
    Can this cause NC based on the TS requirements? Further the Sales is based in our Business Unit in Germany and they were Audited and have the Cert as well.
     
    bbzenzof, Sep 24, 2015
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  8. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm not familiar with the TS requirements, but the information from Sales (i.e., customer requirements) is key to your site's ability to meet Customer requirements. If they're audited and certified on their own processes, I wonder if they could be treated as an out-sourced process; as long as they meet your requirements (e.g., communication of Customer requirements, maintaining certification, etc.), simply including them as an input to your site's sequence of activities may be sufficient.

    Why not approach your Registrar in advance of their next visit to gain clarification on the matter?
     
    RoxaneB, Sep 24, 2015
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  9. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm left wondering what the auditor was thinking about when they were supposed to confirm your inputs to the processes... However, be that as it may, it sounds to me like you can draw an interface with the German sales or and their process and rely on them being under a certified QMS. Is it the same (by name) CB used?
     
    Andy Nichols, Sep 24, 2015
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  10. MCW8888

    MCW8888 Well-Known Member

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    Andy is right! The sales are your authorized customer representative, and by definition they should know what the customer specific requirements are and are ready to provide you with such inputs so you can make the product better, cheaper and faster.
     
    MCW8888, Oct 7, 2015
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  11. bbzenzof

    bbzenzof Member

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    Dear All, thanks for all the insights, our re-certification went well and we were able to manage this process...
     
    bbzenzof, Oct 27, 2015
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  12. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

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    Would you be willing to share how you managed the process? Did the recommendations shared here help or did you do something different?
     
    RoxaneB, Oct 27, 2015
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  13. Maria Patchin

    Maria Patchin New Member

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    First of all ISO 9001:2015 is pretty clear...ALL QMS top level processes must be mapped. As a company you get to define those processes. ISO also highlights something pretty specific- Understanding the needs of interested parties (4.2) and section section 8 but specifically 8.2.2. During the Sales Process that is drawn out and communicated. I would mentor all in this way;

    1) Inputs: The voice of the customer dictates the work. Customer defines Quality! Customer defines what is critical to them. They communicate that to Company X. Company X commits to work if they believe they can meet the expectation. Sales then quotes based off this and communicates further with both internal management and the customer (this is a process and not magic.) This Process (how to quote and what to communicate, how to plan, how to schedule, determining requirements, and control changes etc) need to be documented. This effects #2

    2) Output: Engineered articles or Services are also Top Level Processes as is Supply Chain, Logistics, Shipping, Leadership functions/Responsibilitys and Production that affect the value stream and final article produced. All these should be monitored, measured, analysed and evaluated for continual improvement.

    Plan, Do, ACT, Check! Leaving out Sales specifically tells an auditor that a company does not understand the organization, its context, its interested parties and how to scope accordingly. Section 5.1.2 is titled Customer Focus. The people that gather information and interact first with the customer is SALES!
     

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    Maria Patchin, Jan 3, 2018
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  14. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

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    Where does it say you have to map processes?
     
    Golfman25, Jan 4, 2018
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    Andy Nichols likes this.