1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
Dismiss Notice
You must be a registered member in order to post messages and view/download attached files in this forum.
Click here to register.

ISO 9001 or related Lead Auditor Courses - Validity and Autheticity

Discussion in 'Training - Internal, External and Web-Based' started by Muhammad Usman Ghani, Apr 18, 2023.

  1. Muhammad Usman Ghani

    Muhammad Usman Ghani New Member

    Apr 18, 2023
    Likes Received:
    Trophy Points:
    Hi All,

    I have a great query to discuss.

    My opinion is that it is not mandatory in any legal/standards/related document that Lead Auditor training of a standard like say ISO 9001:2015 - the usual 40 hrs training - should be from CQI IRCA/ Exemplar or RAB QSA? OR learning services provided certification must be used as a tool to validate quality of training. Like ISO 27993.

    Also, IRCA courses certificates mention a varied date of 3 years and five years expiry.

    Can't a good training agency or trainer can independently impart 40hrs Lead Auditor training?

    If one has conducted second party and third-party audits - as an auditor will still his certificate expire?

    My research till now leads to following:

    1. But none of the standards like IAF/ISO mentions the accredited requirements like ISO 17021 or any IAF guidelines document. Even a food safety standard like FSSC 22000 or BRCGS doesn't mention this.
    2. Also, if I want to be an auditor for 9001/14001/45001 then why one needs to do the ISO 19011 auditing stuff done in each LA course. why one needs 15 days training. Like 5-day course as it usually marketed.
    3. If I have done an LA 9001 IN 2015, and done audits/trainings for say an year - 30-40manday audits in 2017, would my LA credentials still valid? Certificate though says that it has expired in 2020 (after five years of my course). How we calculate validity? as I have not seen auditors resit in auditor exams after their five years except when standard changes which is on average 8-9 years.
    4. LA Courses - accredited ones have lots of complains in many regions including self-projections, tools for forcing out the trainings. I have seen auditors who were LA trainers to recommend LA to everyone. As it will bring more business and more royalties. Accreditations should not act as royalty base business.
  2. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Jul 30, 2015
    Likes Received:
    Trophy Points:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    Welcome! Your post is, indeed interesting

    Define "good". Anyone can put up a flag claiming to be a trainer. Also, becoming a competent auditor isn't accomplished in 40 hours.

    BTW - what is ISO 27993? I can't find it.

    I'm not sure of the question here. What are you suggesting? That an auditor doesn't need to requalify?

    Of course. Implementing ISO 9001 doesn't require certification (IAF doesn't issue "standards") and ISO/IEC 17021 only applies to Conformity Assessment Bodies.
    Who said you need to have 15 days of training? This may be your paradigm.
    Are you certified as a Lead Auditor with IRCA or Exemplar Global? What do their requirements state?
    All course providers attract complaints. I'm not sure what your point is. Are you suggesting that an organization must not sell its training services? Have you brought your concerns to IRCA or Exemplar Global?
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2023
    Jennifer Kirley likes this.