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ISO 9001:2015 Lead Auditor Course

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by Arvin Mojica, May 31, 2018.

  1. Arvin Mojica

    Arvin Mojica Member

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    Good Day.. Im planning to take the Lead Auditor Course, Any suggestions about where/what company i can enroll in and how much commonly the training Course for Lead Auditor? Thank you
     
    Arvin Mojica, May 31, 2018
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  2. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    Usually, lead auditor courses are ran by CBs. In the Philippines, it's a 40-hour course (8hrs for 5 days) and it costs on a range of PhP 35k to 40k (USD 572 to 762).
     
    tony s, May 31, 2018
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  3. Arvin Mojica

    Arvin Mojica Member

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    What if I fail the exam after the 5 days of training? what will happen? Do i need to pay again to take the exam?
     
    Arvin Mojica, May 31, 2018
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  4. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Typically, you get to take the exam again, and there may be a nominal charge. Since you don't know what training provider to use, make that question part of your selection questions!

    Make sure your course is accredited and - FWIW - I wouldn't go to a CB for training. They only see audits through the eyes of CB auditors and you need a balanced viewpoint, unless you intend becoming a CB auditor...
     
    Andy Nichols, May 31, 2018
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  5. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    Group;
    While we're on this subject, lets discuss the actual term "Lead Auditor", as it is an ill-defined and often mis-identified term. A "lead auditor" is an accreditation body term and to truly gain the accurate title "Lead Auditor" it requires more than a test. Most requirements include "X" amount of auditing hours with an existing certified auditor and endorsed organization/program. The origin of "Lead Auditor" is actually a position given to an associate of an accreditation body and not originally (currently?) intended to be for individuals outside of the AB circles.
    An example of oddly (wrongly?) using the term "Lead Auditor" is as follows...
    IATF 16949 (the expanded "automotive version"of ISO 9001:2015) requires CSR (Customer Specific Requirements) be met. In the case of General Motors, GM throws the term "Lead AUditor" around in a manner that I understand to be quite loose when compared to the term's actual "definition"/intent. e.g....
    8.4.2.4.1 Second-party audits (from GM's CSR)...
    2. The organization (2nd party) must utilize a qualified ISO Lead Auditor, or a qualified internal auditor with evidence of their successful completion of training, and a minimum of five internal ..."

    I would infer from GM's use of the term "Lead Auditor" that GM suppliers essentially need to train an associate (i.e. SQE, etc...) for a career with an AB in order to meet GM's requirement.

    @Andy Nichols can you please weigh in on this from your experience/expertise in the AB world? Thanks in advance.
     
    John C. Abnet, May 31, 2018
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  6. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Agreed, John (except it's a CB/AB/NB term for the most part). I totally agree that the term is thrown around - usually by people who see all things "audit" through the eyes of a those external auditors. Rarely, and only in bigger corporations with centralized QA staff does the term "Lead Auditor" have any consequence. As for Lead Auditor classes, unless you want to become a CB (or AB/NB) auditor, why waste your time. The LA course is really only a (good) 3 day Internal auditor class with a couple of days and an exam tacked on to make it 5 days. What's more, it fills peoples' heads with a degree of formality which is waaaay above and beyond what internal auditors need.
     
    Andy Nichols, May 31, 2018
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  7. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for this feedback @Andy Nichols . I have additional questions, but I have digressed from this forum and the OP. I will create a new discussion point on IATF 16949:2016'
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2018
    John C. Abnet, May 31, 2018
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  8. Arvin Mojica

    Arvin Mojica Member

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    I'm currently internal auditor in our company and planning to be an CB auditor as a Career, if things goes well. Here in the Philippines, lots of CB companies are IRCA accredited. Not familiar with the FWIW.

    I'm new with this Industry (ISO Audit) but in my current experience, I'm loving it.
     
    Arvin Mojica, Jun 1, 2018
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  9. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    FWIW = For What It's Worth

    I'd be very careful if I might provide you with some career guidance. As others here have many year's experience, being an ISO auditor is hard work. Doing internal audits where you know people, isn't the same as being a CB auditor. People play games with you. It can mean a LOT of travel, often on your (unpaid) time. CBs don't always pay expenses quickly. If you have a family, you might not see much of them. I'd ask a few CB auditors in the Philippines about their experiences and think long and hard before you decide. It's not "fun"...
     
    Andy Nichols, Jun 1, 2018
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  10. Arvin Mojica

    Arvin Mojica Member

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    Thank you sir for your advise. I'm glad i meet honest people here. Now it's hard for me to decide! HAHAHA! but thank you sir! :)
     
    Arvin Mojica, Jun 1, 2018
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  11. Steven Severt

    Steven Severt Member

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    I just finished mine through SAI Global. It was a pretty good course.
     
    Steven Severt, Jun 7, 2018
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  12. Arvin Mojica

    Arvin Mojica Member

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    I'm planning to take mine at TUV Rheinland. But I'm not sure yet. Any tips? :)
     
    Arvin Mojica, Jun 7, 2018
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  13. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Do you plan on doing external audits? Supplier or 3rd Party audits? If not, save (someone's) money and (your) time and go to a good internal auditor course (3 day). Understand that many times that auditor training ONLY uses the 3rd Party model and they only see the process through that filter. It's not appropriate for internal auditors, you'll find...
     
    Andy Nichols, Jun 7, 2018
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  14. Steven Severt

    Steven Severt Member

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    I've noticed that the course was structured very much for 3rd party audits. It's definitely worthwhile, and I'm glad that I went through it, but I will have to change our internal strategy quite a bit from what was taught in the Lead Auditor course. I plan on doing internal training to bring on a couple of more auditors in our facility. We can certify them internally and have record of their training and competence. There's no real course requirement for an internal auditor. Again, it was definitely worth the time, and it was paid for by the company, and I would certainly recommend anyone to do it that will be involved with auditing.
     
    Steven Severt, Jun 7, 2018
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  15. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Which makes it the wrong training (for internal auditors)!
     
    Andy Nichols, Jun 8, 2018
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