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IATF 16949 confusion

Discussion in 'IATF 16949:2016 - Automotive Quality Systems' started by Vo Tien Manh, Dec 30, 2024.

  1. Vo Tien Manh

    Vo Tien Manh Member

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    I found a confusing passage in the IATF 16949 standard as follows:

    "7.1.5.3.2 External laboratory: ... the laboratory shall be accredited to ISO/IEC 17025 or its national equivalent (e.g., CNASCL01 in China) by an accreditation body (Signatory) of the ILAC MRA (International Laboratory Accreditation Forum Mutual Recognition Arrangement – www.ilac.org) and include the relevant inspection, test, or calibration service in the scope of the accreditation (certificate); the certificate of calibration or test report shall include the mark of a national accreditation body; or..."

    What is difference between an accreditation body of the ILAC MRA and a national accreditation body?

    Why not "the mark of an accreditation body of the ILAC MRA" but "the mark of a national accreditation body"?
     
  2. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    I think it may be in the reading of the sentence and in the punctuation. There are three requirements/statements here, each separated by a semi-colon. Each may be read almost as a stand-alone.
     
  3. Vo Tien Manh

    Vo Tien Manh Member

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    Thank you sir!
    Your answer makes me think this:
    - Need the mark of an accreditation body of the ILAC MRA for ISO/IEC 17025
    - Need the mark of a national accreditation body for its national equivalent
     
  4. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    This means the lab shall be accredited...

    This means that the report shall indicate it came from the lab which is accredited (above), otherwise how will anyone know the result is trustworthy?
     
  5. Vo Tien Manh

    Vo Tien Manh Member

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    I understand this. But I find it confusing because it is inconsistent. Above it says "be accredited to ISO/IEC 17025 ... by an accreditation body (Signatory) of the ILAC MRA", but below it says "the certificate of calibration or test report shall include the mark of a national accreditation body".
    An "accreditation body (Signatory) of the ILAC MRA" is not necessarily a "national accreditation body".
     
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  6. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    I'd suggest you send your comment in to the IATF/IAOB and ask for an SI to be written...
     
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  7. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    All international standards are surely a challenge for the authors. I appreciate their efforts, appreciate the results (specifically 'ISO'), and empathize with their challenges. Having said that, I have found the IATF authors (influenced by and confused by the IATF OEM members and their own motives and narratives) to be confusing, contradictory, selfishly driven by making the IATF an OEM profit center and a conflict of interest. The sheer frequency and number of "SI' that the group issues are proof of what I claim.

    i.e. your comment "confusing and inconsistent" are an accurate observation
    (disclaimer: Much of my professional career and the way I make a living are directly related to the automotive industry. However, 30 years of experience give me the knowledge and right to criticize that very industry).

    Be well.
     
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  8. Vo Tien Manh

    Vo Tien Manh Member

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    Thank you so much. I've sent email to IATF, but have not received reply yet.
     
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  9. Vo Tien Manh

    Vo Tien Manh Member

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    Thank you so much. I also agree with you, I find ISO 9001 standard very clear and easy to understand, while many other standards still have many confusing places, placing too much emphasis on rigid compliance.
     
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  10. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Just an FYI - IATF 16949 isn't a "standard". Once it de-coupled from the ISO organization (when it lost its "TS" moniker) it reverted to being a "Supply chain requirement" and isn't classified as a standard in the true sense.
     
  11. Vo Tien Manh

    Vo Tien Manh Member

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    Hi sir, I sent my question to IATF/IAOB and they've replied yet. "
    Hello Vo Tien Manh, thank you for the question and Happy New Year. We are aware of this issue with the current wording in that clause of the IATF 16949 standard. We have received similar observations from others. These inputs are being used in the process of updating the standard to meet current requirements. We expect these updates to be part of the work to develop the 2nd Edition IATF 16949, which you might have seen announced on the IATF website https://www.iatfglobaloversight.org/." We will wait for the second edition of the IATF.
     
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  12. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Thanks for the feedback!
     
  13. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    Well done @Vo Tien Manh