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How to evaluate the effectiveness of actions to address these risks and opportunities

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by Syazwani Othman, Oct 19, 2022.

  1. Syazwani Othman

    Syazwani Othman New Member

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    Hello all,

    Anyone can help to explain more on 6.1.2 (b)(2) and the example of evaluation method?

    6.1.2 The organization shall plan

    b) how to:

    2) evaluate the effectiveness of these actions.
     
  2. RonR Quality Pro

    RonR Quality Pro Active Member

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    This section deals with planning, risk identification, and the steps which are taken to mitigate risks which are identified.

    As an example, the team identifies a risk of not being able to run the production line due to a compressor breakdown (low air pressure).
    The preventive action is to partner with a supplier to have a portable compressor available for rental if required. In addition, the preventive/predictive maintenance schedule for this piece of equipment is enhanced to be more frequent/in depth.

    To evaluate this, you would first look to see if there WERE any occasions where the compressor broke down, and if so, what was the cause?
    Without a breakdown, you can still review the existence of a contract with the supplier (and confirm that the supplier still actually is in business (had that happen to us once). Also review the maintenance PM/PM records, and confirm that the planned schedule and actions are being adhered to.

    You don't need to make it complicated - it is up to YOU to determine how you will evaluate the actions taken.
     
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  3. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Can I ask how you determined your risks and opportunities? That might help us guide you to an answer...
     
  4. CANAA

    CANAA New Member

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    Hi
    I work in a company that manufactures bicycles.

    Can you share an example of risk analysis regarding the risks that may occur in the processes of bicycle production?
     
  5. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Welcome. No-one can accurately help you with your question. By the way, that’s not what ISO 9001 requires your organization to do, either.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2022
  6. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    While ISAac has his third law which is "for every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction", ISO has it's own law which is "for every action, evaluate its effectiveness". :D This requirement is mentioned in:
    • 6.1.2 - if there's action to address risk/opportunity, evaluate its effectiveness;
    • 7.2 - if there's action to acquire the necessary competence, evaluate its effectiveness; and
    • 10.2.1 - if there's action to address a nonconformity, evaluate its effectiveness.
    The word effectiveness is defined by ISO 9000:2015 as "extent to which planned activities are realized and planned results are achieved". So, when evaluating effectiveness, gather information on whether the "planned activities" are realized and whether the "planned results" are achieved.

    For the "planned activities": Check whether the planned actions to address risks/opportunities are implemented as planned. Were they completed in accordance with the target dates? Do the concerned functions that were tasked to implement the actions carry them out accordingly and properly?

    For the "planned results": Since risk is better defined by ISO 31000:2018 (Risk management - guidelines) as "effect of uncertainty on objectives" and objective is defined (by ISO 9000:2015) as "result to be achieved" - check whether the objectives or expected outputs of the process or the organization that are supposed to be affected by the risks/opportunities are being achieved. See example below:

    upload_2022-10-30_12-55-22.png
     
  7. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

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    Let us avoid unnecessary complexity in this subject. Here are the basic steps:
    1. Identify your organization/process risks
    2. Define the actions to address those risks
    3. Understand how you will know if the actions were effective
    4. Recognize the effectiveness based on data accumulated
    5. Report the effectiveness as has been arranged in the QMS
    The most common failure is in #3: too often we are not prepared to measure effectiveness.

    Please note that this is a business prerogative first, and ISO requirement second. Effectiveness of actions to address risks would reasonably be part of our every day life in the workplace. How we quantify that is the question.
     
  8. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Then how does an organization become certified if they can’t show effectiveness? Most management I meet know FPY or similar is a measure of effectiveness. What they don’t know is how to do problem solving.
     
  9. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    Can you point the requirements in the standard that says "quantify" the effectiveness? The standard only mentioned evaluate the effectiveness. Where does quantification come in?
    Can you help us understand how? So, we can help people in this forum to "avoid unnecessary complexity in this subject".
     
  10. Bev D

    Bev D Moderator Staff Member

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    Why must we adhere only to the minimum requirements of ISO - or any standard for that matter? This only drives companies to the lowest acceptable level of mediocrity at best.

    To be clear if an ISO auditor issued a finding that quibbled with the ‘quantification’ of the effectiveness of an improvement action I’d dispute it. As I would dispute other trivial findings that divert an organization from true quality improvement actions.

    As a Customer I have real issues with suppliers who can’t or won’t quantify the effectiveness of their actions (when it is appropriate and possible - sometimes purely Preventive actions are difficult to quantify as there is no quantifiable baseline, but a subjective assessment can be made). In my experience the inability to quantify effectiveness is directly tied to poor problem solving skills…I’ve seen too many FMEAs and 8Ds that were penciled whipped while the problems continue unabated or magically occur even with some stupid action to prevent it…

    When did going beyond the minimum requirements become wrong? (Jennifer did state that her response was more directed at what should be done and not just for ISO compliance).



    For the OP: assessing effectiveness can be done in many ways. The start is to think about the action you are going to take. What is it supposed to accomplish? How will it work to accomplish it’s objective? What will it look like if the action works? This will give you the start of how to assess the effectiveness. A few examples:
    - if you implement an error proofing device you could test it to see if it does prevent the error.
    - If you are setting realistic tolerances via experimental studies that data will show the effectiveness of the tolerances
    - if you are implementing ‘backup’ plans you could test certain things to see if they actually work (like testing a backup generator) or you could use historical and planned data to determine something like safety stock for inventory
    - if you are taking an action to advantage of an opportunity to increase sales that’s a pretty simple ‘after the fact’ test - did sales increase?
    - ‘after the fact’ occurrences are simple to assess…

    It really just takes a little thought…
     
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  11. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    ^^^ What Bev said. I'd also add, how many (large) corporations also fail to a) recognize when their processes are out of control and b) do anything about it. In just the past couple of years, I've encountered large (privately owned) companies who have quality losses in the millions and who seem incapable of getting out of their own way to correct things. Of course, the external auditors are also happy to stand on the sidelines and wave their ISO/IATF/Whatever certificates in the air...
     
  12. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I agree.
    I agree also.
    If quantifying effectiveness adds value to it. I guess I've read this somewhere: "(when it is appropriate and possible - sometimes purely Preventive actions are difficult to quantify as there is no quantifiable baseline, but a subjective assessment can be made)".
     
  13. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

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    Thank you for pointing out my error: Effectiveness is not always about quantity. The result of evaluation can also be qualitative.
     
  14. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    No worries @Jennifer Kirley. I really learn a lot from the exchanges in this forum. Thanks also for sharing your knowledge and experience.:)

    IMHO qualitative or quantitative indicators are more suitable for review/evaluation of performance (9.1.3c and 9.3.2c). For review/evaluation of effectiveness, I usually stick to its definition (3.7.11 of ISO 9000) and would prefer to obtain data/information on whether "planned results are achieved" and whether "planned activities are realized".
     
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  15. Abed Salameh

    Abed Salameh Member

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    Hi, you can quantify and measure the effectiveness of actions to address risks and oppos, if the actions taken are completed, then they are closed off and to verify if the actions is effective, common practice is to monitor the actions for say 90 days, and if the problem/ issue does not happen again, we can say it is effective otherwise it is not.
    Effectiveness can also be measured using the kpis of the process, which tells you how effective you are running your process.
     
  16. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    This is subject to what's known as the "Hawthorne Effect". Be careful in suggesting monitoring actions. It's results of the actions which prove sustainable effectiveness.
     
  17. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    Although organizations may adopt this approach, the standard requires "evaluation of effectiveness" - not "quantify and measure effectiveness". According to the ISO 9000 Glossary, the word "evaluate", which is a verb, means "judge".
    upload_2023-2-25_17-24-1.png

    IMHO when we judge, there are at least 2 results. For example: either guilty or not guilty, pass or fail, accept or reject, etc. In management systems audit, the "result of the evaluation of the collected evidence against the criteria" can indicate either conformity or nonconformity (see 3.10 of ISO 19011).

    When evaluating effectiveness I will need to gather information to determine whether the planned results are achieved or not achieved and whether the planned activities are realized or not realized. In gathering these information, I may need to obtain and analyze data from monitoring/measurement. The result of my analysis (meaning "detailed determination" as per the Glossary) will now be used for evaluation (see clause 9.1.3).
     
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  18. Abed Salameh

    Abed Salameh Member

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    I take your advice on board, thanks
     
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