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Driving Licence checks - internal audit

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by marni., Feb 14, 2023.

  1. marni.

    marni. New Member

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    Hi, at our last external audit the auditor said we should be auditing the process for checking driving licences.
    no context behind it just said add it to my schedule, not something I'd considered before.
    We do check the licences it's carried out for new starters and an online checks about every 3 months or so but I have not audited it before, is this something you all do? and under what part of the ISO 9001 standard do you audit against?
     
  2. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    And this has an impact on the product or service your organization provides? if no, get a new auditor.
     
  3. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    By the way, welcome to the site @marni.
     
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  4. marni.

    marni. New Member

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    we have 11 company vehicles mainly for our guys to get to and from sites and a couple of flatbeds for transporting items but not all our goods are moved by us we often have to get larger vehicles to courier for us.
     
  5. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    That is a stupid comment for the external auditor to make. I would not allow them back and would make a formal complaint to the Certification Body you are contracted with. The auditor is clearly incompetent.

    Oh yes, and welcome, too! We'll help you take care of such silliness.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2023
  6. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    So is your business scope transportation?...logistics? (or are you delivering/having delivered an actual product you produce?
     
  7. Miner

    Miner Moderator Staff Member

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    What clause did they cite? Was this part of competency?
     
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  8. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    The clues to the auditor's ridiculousness are abundantly clear:

    1. Not the (external) auditor's job to "require" or "advise" on something they have an opinion about
    2. "Should" isn't a "shall" - it's opinion. Not objective.
    3. They didn't provide a context for the comment. No requirement? It's opinion.
    4. No formal written report? Either in the summary or in the form of a non-conformity? Again, not doing their job effectively or formally, where the CB management might ask why such silliness is being reported.
     
  9. marni.

    marni. New Member

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    he gave no context as to why, so I'm left baffled the problem i had was the audit was conducted in Holland and he only spoke in English when directing to me however insisted he spoke Dutch to the workforce even though they are fluent in English. I've put a complaint in about that.
     
  10. marni.

    marni. New Member

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    i agree I'm not going to waste time on minor things in the business at the moment, I've bigger areas to concentrate on for now, thank you for your feedback much appreciated
     
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  11. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Uitstekend!

    (Ik skaat van Scheveningen naar Schiermonnikoog? Or "I speak English very well, not so schnell, maar het komt niet well...")
     
  12. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    This is a sound practice. If a semi-trailer truck is being driven by a new driver that carries only a driving license with restriction code 1, a nonconformity against clause 8.5.1e might be raised. This clause requires "appointment of competent persons, including any required qualification".
    Why would the auditor recommend to "add it to your schedule", when you already mentioned "We do check the licences it's carried out for new starters and an online checks about every 3 months"?
     
  13. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    We'd need a lot more information, I believe, Tony. What's the scope? What are these drivers and the trucks in relationship to the scope. What does the QMS state in regard to the need for competencies? It's a long time since I held a Dutch rijbewijs, but it might not confer much in the way of anything other than basic vehicle use. A semi/articulated unit is going to need more if driven in "anger", as it were. Hence the need for more information.
     
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  14. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    Yes, @marni. , as others have indicated, it would be very helpful to have the scope of your organization. Thanks in advance.

    Be well.
     
  15. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

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    I agree that understanding scope would help us a lot here. If your business is in hazardous chemicals, there are very specific licensing requirements for transport in various countries the transport occurs in.

    Other types of products would likely be less stringent; but please remember our QMS Context includes requirements of interested parties, which include regulators for transportation.
     
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