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Control of externally provided processes, products and Services

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by Rajkumar, Jun 19, 2018.

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  1. Rajkumar

    Rajkumar Member

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    Hi Friends,
    We are taking services of Logistic Agency to supply products to Customers.
    I want to know if Clause 8.4.1 b) is applicable since "products and services are provided directly to Customer by external providers on behalf of the Organization". If no, how to put this non-applicability in QM.
    Thanks
     
    Rajkumar, Jun 19, 2018
    #1
  2. Yan Li

    Yan Li New Member

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    I think 8.4.1b is applicable for logistic agency. Also, we need monitor the performance of external provider, and communicate the requirement of our control and monitoring(8.4.3 e). Furthermore, the performance of external providers is mandentory input of management review(9.3.2 c-7). Hope it can help you.
     
    Yan Li, Jun 20, 2018
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  3. Qualmx

    Qualmx Well-Known Member

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    Yan li,
    How do you reevaluate , and how do you monitor the oerformance?
    Is one activity for the two requirements or you do different things.
    Could you provide examples?
    Thanks
     
    Qualmx, Jun 20, 2018
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  4. Rajkumar

    Rajkumar Member

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    Dear Yen Li,
    We ourselves are not Logistic Agency, but we are utilizing services of a Logistic Agency to deliver goods to Customer. We just want to know about the applicability of said clause.
    What you mentioned about External Providers is OK.
    Thanks
     
    Rajkumar, Jun 20, 2018
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  5. Darrell B

    Darrell B New Member

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    I have never listed shipping providers on an approved vendor list or considered them an outside process. Not saying right or wrong, but in 25 years no auditor has called me on it.
     
    Darrell B, Jun 21, 2018
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  6. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Hi Darrell:
    Sounds like you got lucky! Not all auditors consider that. If your organization is responsible for delivery to the customer, and you choose the shipping carrier, then you should at least monitor their performance. They can/could impact your delivery performance and (potentially) damage the product while in their hands. Maybe low risk, but worthy of considerations, as long as the conditions mentioned are fulfilled.
     
    Andy Nichols, Jun 21, 2018
    #6
    Jennifer Kirley, RoxaneB and John C. Abnet like this.
  7. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

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    Ours was looked at because our shipping carriers were how product made it to the customers. We kept them on a separate list that followed a similar methodology/format as found with our AVL, but due to the number of carriers on our list, it was easier for our Logistics team to maintain a list solely focused on their "vendors".
     
    RoxaneB, Jun 22, 2018
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  8. Rajkumar

    Rajkumar Member

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    Dear Mr. Nichols,
    In our case too no Auditor ever asked for rating of Logistic Agency.
    But I agree that they should also be included in AVL and their performance be rated. In fact this year we have included them in AVL.
    But we are diverting from main issue of applicability of Clause 8.4.1 b.
    Thanks
     
    Rajkumar, Jun 23, 2018
    #8
  9. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    So, what does that tell you? That you don't have to consider a particular classification of supplier? That your company isn't affected by their performance in making deliveries or, more likely that the auditors you have experienced are lacking competency/understanding are cannot be trusted?
     
    Andy Nichols, Jun 23, 2018
    #9
  10. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

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    With carrier issues being among the most frequent causes cited for damage or loss to product, I would certainly support rating your carriers' service. I have a client who identified an entire region in which a major carrier should not be used, based on that region's poor performance and indifferent customer service.

    8.4.1b absolutely applies, and 7.4 did so before but most people failed to understand it also applied to critical services. In the past, many auditors have let that go but should not do so now that 8.4.1 clearly states "...and services."
     
    Jennifer Kirley, Jun 24, 2018
    #10
  11. Rajkumar

    Rajkumar Member

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    Thanks.
     
    Rajkumar, Jun 28, 2018
    #11