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An input, an input, my kingdom for an input...

Discussion in 'ISO 19011 - Auditing Management Systems Guidelines' started by Andy Nichols, Nov 22, 2024.

  1. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    WIth apologies to Bill Shakespeare, I'm genuinely interested to hear what people consider - and are using - for inputs to the internal audit process. ISO 19011 appears to be silent on the topic..
    Your thoughts?
     
    Andy Nichols, Nov 22, 2024
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  2. yodon

    yodon Well-Known Member

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    Methinks he doth protest too much. ;-)

    Seriously, not sure what you're asking. Inputs are records of evidence demonstrating compliance to the quality system. (And of course, the quality system itself is an input.) I guess it gets a little more sketchy with aspects like risk and effectiveness.
     
    yodon, Nov 25, 2024
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    Andy Nichols likes this.
  3. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Interestingly, I stumbled over ISO/TS 9002 being more informative (while NOT being referenced by ISO 19011 - a guide to a guide?) on the subject...

    A list of inputs to consider when planning audits includes, but is not limited to:
    a) importance of the processes;
    b) managerial priorities;
    c) performance of the processes;
    d) changes affecting the organization;
    e) results from previous audits (e.g. history of problems);
    f) trends in customer complaints;
    g) statutory and regulatory issues.
     
    Andy Nichols, Nov 25, 2024
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  4. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    - Audit plan
    * Audit scope
    * Audit criteria
    - Interview/feedback
    - Witnessing
    - objective evidence



    For your consideration.

    Be well.
     
    John C. Abnet, Nov 25, 2024
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  5. yodon

    yodon Well-Known Member

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    Ah, so inputs in general -v- inputs for planning? That's a good list you provided. Those are generally what I was getting at with risk and effectiveness.
     
    yodon, Nov 25, 2024
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  6. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    This is what I've accumulated, based on answers here and a couple of other places:

    • audit procedure
    • audit plan / calendar,
    • audit report template,
    • previous audit results including nonconformance
    • Objectives, scope, standards, operating procedures and instructions for processes to be audited
    • the current state of the process to be an input.
    • Interview/feedback
    • Witnessing
    • objective evidence
    • Standards
    • requirements (of interested parties)
    • metrics
    • objectives and targets
    • Sample size document (sample of size of auditees/records)
    • Checklist
    • Management Notification
    This tells me that ISO 19011 needs to do a better job, especially since ISO/TS 9002 a) isn't referenced in 19011 and b) there's still a lack of clarity in ISO/TS 9002 - what's "important" about a process? I have had people tell me "They're ALL important"... :rolleyes:
     
    Andy Nichols, Nov 25, 2024
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