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ISO Lead Auditor Training Certification

Discussion in 'Professional Certifications and Degrees' started by Kodirl, Aug 4, 2020.

  1. Kodirl

    Kodirl Member

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    Can anyone tell me how long the certificate is valid for (9001:2015) when you become lead auditor?
     
    Kodirl, Aug 4, 2020
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  2. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Certificates usually don't have any "expiry". Being a "lead auditor" is not a matter of attending a training course and passing an exam. The term is/was applied to a grade of professional auditor, through an organization such as Exemplar Global, IRCA etc. A certificate issued by them, has to be maintained through experience and personal development and payment of fees.

    A training course (only) certificate only "expires" when the standard used is withdrawn.
     
    Andy Nichols, Aug 4, 2020
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  3. Kodirl

    Kodirl Member

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    Thanks Andy. The reason I'm asking is we are hiring someone who has ISO 9001:2008 lead auditor training, therefore their certification has now expired .
     
    Kodirl, Aug 5, 2020
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  4. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Good point! And, as we know, while auditing really doesn't change if you have that skill, understanding the new standard is a huge difference. BTW, if that person has been auditing to the standard (only), like once or twice a year, you might want to revisit their understanding of the requirements.
     
    Andy Nichols, Aug 5, 2020
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  5. Jjay90

    Jjay90 New Member

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    Hi, I have encountered an example ISO 9001:2015 LA question that goes something like this:

    You are auditing a subcontractor Organization ABC. ABC organization has an investigation process to investigate customer complaints. Upon review, there were recently several complaints from their customers regarding faulty products. The products were recalled and repaired then returned to the customers. Investigation report record shows that the cause of this issue is 2 staffs that are under going training were assigned to tasks that require supervision. Due to shortage of manpower, no supervision provided. Corrective action was stated to be the 2 staffs have completed training and deemed competent and report closed. No further corrective action or investigations stated.

    Is this an NCR or does it require further investigation ?

    Would appreciate your guidance. Thanks !
     
    Jjay90, Oct 23, 2020
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  6. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Jjay:

    Typically, we do not directly provide answers to Lead Auditor examination question such as this. The purpose of the exam is to test your knowledge and understanding. If anyone (well intentioned though they may be) replies "it's this, or that", there's no learning on your part. But we can still help!

    What do YOU think is going on, here?
     
    Andy Nichols, Oct 23, 2020
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  7. Jjay90

    Jjay90 New Member

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    I am new to the course but in my opinion, there is a non conformity in terms of manpower shortage (resources) which affected the quality of the products to several customers (Clause 7.1.2) and another non conformity in my opinion is the corrective action itself where no proper corrective or preventative action was done, waiting for the training to be completed while the quality of the product is affected is not an effective corrective action, the fact that no other further corrective actions or investigations was stated in the report shows that no evaluation was done on the effectiveness of the corrective action to prevent recurrence or occurrence elsewhere and this is compared against clause 10.2.1. Neither the supervision requirement nor the overall manpower shortage was covered by the corrective action. I am not sure if there is enough evidence to conclude the non conformities, putting it as NCR if its not will be an immediate 0 points for the exam.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
    Jjay90, Oct 23, 2020
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  8. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Good call. However, we as auditors have to be careful to avoid identifying a cause when reporting our findings. We can only report the "objective evidence" and not what is believed (opinion) to be the reason.

    Have you studied how to frame a non-conformity statement, yet? Would you be prepared to draft one and post it here for us to review?
     
    Andy Nichols, Oct 23, 2020
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  9. Jjay90

    Jjay90 New Member

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    1. Description of Nonconformity: Organization ABC did not evaluate the need for action to eliminate the cause(s) of the nonconformity when a nonconformity occurs, including any arising from complaints, in order that it does not recur or occur elsewhere. (Clause 10.2.1)

    Evidences: a. Record of complaints from several customers.
    b. Investigation report that states the 2 staffs completed training and deemed competent with no further corrective actions or investigations stated.

    2. Description of Nonconformity: Organization ABC did not determine or provide the persons necessary for the effective implementation of its quality management system and for the operation and control of its processes. (Clause 7.1.2)

    Evidences: a. Investigation report that states the shortage of manpower.


    Would this by itself be a firm NCR ?
     
    Jjay90, Oct 23, 2020
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  10. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    I was taught and still teach that a non-conformity statement needs the following:

    1. The source of the audit criteria
    2. The audit criteria
    3. The source of the audit evidence
    4. The audit evidence
    Does this help frame your thoughts?
     
    Andy Nichols, Oct 23, 2020
    #10