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You CAN audit your own work!

Discussion in 'ISO 19011 - Auditing Management Systems Guidelines' started by Andy Nichols, Oct 8, 2015.

  1. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    What about the last sentence?
    "For small organizations, it may not be possible for internal auditors to be fully independent of the activity
    being audited, but every effort should be made to remove bias and encourage objectivity"
     
  2. Serious Man

    Serious Man Active Member

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    Each organisation, who finds internal auditing as valuable thing, shall outsource audits were impartiality can be questioned.
    I know personally example of automotive corporation, where even auditors from other entities were available, they had decided to invite 3rd party auditor to perform certain internal audit.
     
  3. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Not 3rd party - they cannot do internal audits. Do you mean a supplier organization?
     
  4. Serious Man

    Serious Man Active Member

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    Yes they can, as long they do not mix 3rd party auditing with 1st party auditing for a same organization.
    Even under IATF it is and shall be manageable according to certification rules.
    Restrictions apply also to management system consultancy and site-specific auditor training.
     
  5. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    Isn't that against their accreditation requirements?
     
  6. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    In that case, it's NOT a "third party" is it? They simply become another supplier!
     
  7. Serious Man

    Serious Man Active Member

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    I wrote 3rd party auditor instead of certification body full time auditors or contractors, sorry.
    I meant 3rd party as warrant of competent and reliable auditing. I think you don't agree with my conviction, but that's other subject and we are OT.

    Organisation is certified by CB No 1 and wants external auditor to perform internal audit. It asks CB No 2 to delegate their auditor to perform internal audit.
    Everything is OK as long certifications body are not anyway affiliated or organisation does not switch certification to CB No. 2.
     
  8. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    I would offer counsel when using an auditor who also does CB audits, to do internal audits. In my (extensive) experience, all audits are viewed by them as if they were CB audits. As a result, they miss lots of important (to management) aspects of the QMS. I'd usually suggest finding someone with more balanced expertise.
     

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