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Why all the hype about NOTE in the FDIS ...

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by Somashekar, Sep 3, 2015.

  1. Somashekar

    Somashekar Moderator Staff Member

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    Reading into the context of the organization, it becomes very evident that the company has to determine internal issues in the abilities to achieve intended results of its quality management system.

    Such internal issues consider issues like values, culture, knowledge and performance of the organization. Per NOTE 3 in the clause 4.1 FDIS

    These issues are to be considered in the planning and determine risks and opportunities.

    Now in the support process, which will be an output of planning, and which is very much a part of the quality management system, more emphasis is given to the internal issues by including within the environment for the operation of the processes, the human and physical factors.

    The note further points to what could constitute such factors, which are social, psychological and physical.

    So far so good.

    The Values and culture in the context, considered in the planning leads to resources as a support, which basically are the people and the infrastructure.

    While infrastructure environment is guided by the physical factors, the people environment is guided by Social and Psychological factors, which again is hinted by typical terms like non-discriminatory, calm, non-confrontational AND stress-reducing, burnout prevention, emotionally protective., etc. that are emphasized in the NOTE in the clause 7.1.4 FDIS.

    Clearly is this not what a company is expected to provide for operations, which can differ from company to company, region to region, industry to industry, country to country …. And yet be within the values and culture of human interaction anywhere in the world …. ?

    So why all the hype about these words in the NOTE of the FDIS ? If someone cannot provide such an environment, they are not to be in business by other legal standards, let alone the ISO 9001.
     
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  2. Claes Gefvenberg

    Claes Gefvenberg Moderator Staff Member

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    Good question. Perhaps because clause 6.4 in ISO 9001:2008 did not attract sufficient attention? As for the new note in 7.1.4, I like it. There will be less room for misunderstandings.
     
  3. Eric Twiname

    Eric Twiname Well-Known Member

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    Two cents...

    Historically ISO has been somewhat prescriptive. While that has lessened significantly, those of us who have been associated with ISO for a while still have kernels left leading to a gut reaction of "What do I have to do?".
    From that point of view, ISO dictating that I must "do" things regarding social and psychological aspects is a bit ridiculous.

    All the same, I don't think that's where it was coming from (I hope not anyway). To the original question...perhaps that is why the hype.
     
    Claes Gefvenberg likes this.
  4. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't look at the Note as a "must do", but rather providing guidance to people/organizations that are uncertain how to implement the requirement(s). Further to that, if it is not feasible, practical and/or financially viable for an organization to change certain aspects in an effort to meet requirements, then they should not be required to do so...as long as they are not in violation of any laws.
     
  5. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm not sure there's "hype". From what I've seen, there's a couple of high profile "pot-stirrers" on Linkedin who clearly like to make themselves look like they know something no-one else does - or like being "liked" for their (inane, mostly) comments. Be that as it may, I see no issue here. If you frame this stuff in the context of the organization, including those all-important "interested parties", then the organization might start to discover that - let's say - suppliers are interested, there are one or two sole sourced components and that represents a risk. From a procurement point of view, clearly the "culture" of the buyers can't be "lowest cost" as the selection criteria and so on...

    It's attempting to be a 21st Century standard, however, there are still businesses which have yet to discover 21st century management practices - but still make good stuff!
     
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  6. hogheavenfarm

    hogheavenfarm Well-Known Member

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    I think to your point Andy, I have seen some great quality produced in the most squalid and hostile conditions, I am not sure there is even a solid connection between the items mentioned and quality of the product. I know it is what we are led to believe, but I see no solid evidence. There is the assumption that those social and psychological conditions promote better quality products, but is that proven with data? While we always have been told this is true, I have yet to see evidence of it either way other than isolated case studies. Much of the world operates in conditions that would be considered extreme to us, high temperatures, choking humidity, freezing cold, long hours, so maybe it is a matter of degree? I did see the debates on LI, and I understand that some things can be judged objectively and some cannot, I do not think auditors will be venturing very far into this unknown territory.
     
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  7. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    It's maybe a paradox, but here goes. I had the privilege of working at the old (original) Willy's Jeep plant. According to Chrysler (at that time) it was the most dysfunctional car assembly plant in NA: The assembly shop had 6 stories, 66 miles of conveyor and other problems cause by lack of investment etc. But the pride of workmanship etc - they called it "Jeep Pride" was palpable.
     
  8. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

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    That's it in a nutshell, and I also agree with your observation about the pot stirrers. I got tangled with one in experiences that were uncomfortably familiar...

    I once worked in a family owned machine shop, for a man who called himself the Benevolent Dictator. There were a number of ways he maintained a stable work force within an autocratic environment that felt hostile to those who did not just accept it and keep coming back for a steady paycheck and good benefits. This man wouldn't be able to pull off the standard in its 2015 form; he'd have to hand the business owner to his kids. Fortunately he has already done that.

    The Note should be taken seriously because the younger employees will add turnover costs, both recognizable and hidden, in organizations with leaders who want to maintain their iron fisted rule. This kind of idea isn't setting well with people who don't like to be told they should change their attitude when they honestly believe other people's attitudes are the ones that need changing.
     

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