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Training management on new ISO 9001:2015

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by k_richer, Feb 10, 2017.

  1. k_richer

    k_richer Member

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    Hi Everyone,
    I have been watching this forum for the past couple of months and have learned a great deal! so thank you.
    This is my first post.
    I am currently in my 4th month as a quality manager (among other things, as most of you know) at a company. I am replacing someone who is retiring, and has no interest really in learning about the new standard.
    I will also state that I am in my 2nd year as a quality manager, so I'm still learning A LOT!

    My previous workplace was very quality oriented, with the focus really being on our QMS, and utilizing it.
    This place.... not so much. I feel that they really have it as a formality, and top management really has not gotten involved.

    As you all know, top management involvement is a big aspect for the new standard and was wondering if anyone has experience, trying to get people on board, or training them.
    I feel that most people at this company think it is a mystery as to what I do (including my boss... *Eyeroll*)

    I am having our first quality board meeting (their word for management review, because they really don't do those... its pathetic, I know) of the year next Friday, and I am working on the presentation. For part of it I really want talk about the updating that I've been starting and explain to them what I am going to need from them. But I was wondering if anyone has any good ideas, or if anyone has had to do this too?

    Thanks!
     
  2. Miner

    Miner Moderator Staff Member

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    bump...
     
  3. normzone

    normzone Well-Known Member

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    I saw a good quote the other day, but cannot recall who to attribute it to:

    " These processes help mitigate risk, but are carried out in the name of compliance "

    I have been stressing that to my management team - people speak of doing things "just to meet the standard" but for a company that is not meeting the standard for any other reason than compliance, this is a missed opportunity to improve the organization's processes. Since we have to do it anyway, rather than just "check the boxes", let's make the place run better, faster, less costly, more reliably.
     
  4. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Why? Do you know they even want to update their certification? Do they see any value in it currently, that they wish to work on the changes? I'd start there...
     
  5. k_richer

    k_richer Member

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    Well we are required by our customers to have iso9001 certification (automotive company). We are currently certified to the 2008 version, and our 3 year re-certification is coming up, so instead of being re-certified to the 2008 version, our CB suggested we go for the 2015 version, which saves us some money in the long run..
     
  6. k_richer

    k_richer Member

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    This.

    So I've just started at this company about 4 months ago. Their previous quality manager was extremely part time and tried to do the least, so that is kind of the mind set. But this company has so many break downs where the system just fails, that I've been trying to help change those kinds of things. Its really in the culture here though, so some of the older generation are not having it. But we have made some progress.

    So that's where I was kind of going. I'm trying to figure out how to bring the QMS to each department easier, and make it not sound so ISO-ey. So that they aren't immediately turned off of any changes.
     
  7. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

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    Dollars...speak in financial terms to your leadership group.

    If ISO is required by your customers, the loss of certification could lead to the loss of customers ... less $.

    Cost of Quality - improperly addressing nonconformances could lead to recurring issues = more $ spent on placating customers and fixing stuff. There's a phrase that goes along the lines of "If you don't have time to do it right the first time, what makes you think you'll have time to fix it later?"

    Drop the word "quality" from ISO and replace it with business. A BUSINESS management system - it details who your organization is, its beliefs, its processes, its culture. Think of the value to be gained if everyone worked towards the same objectives and goals...and spoke the same organizational "language". Don't do things because of ISO. Do things because it's what you do. Show how the standard fits your organization, not how your organization has to bend to meet the standard.
     
  8. normzone

    normzone Well-Known Member

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    " So I've just started at this company about 4 months ago. Their previous quality manager was extremely part time and tried to do the least, so that is kind of the mind set "

    Well, that is not always a bad thing. It can be, but in my case I inherited a system from my predecessor that he designed so that nothing would function without his involvement, and if it could be done with one page he wrote ten. I burned that to the ground and built a simpler system focused on the players being responsible how the game goes, and if a process didn't require a complex support system it didn't get one.

    But I feel for you if you're starting with a system where people are inclined to the least effort. That's human.

    Look at your risks - get the players involved first in the areas where the company is getting hurt the most.

    And [RoxaneB] is correct. I explained to my guys that the standard says QMS, but we will only use the phrase "business management system" because that's what's intended.
     
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  9. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm wondering what your management would say - "we had to", or maybe because they see some benefit? (in addition to "satisfying" a customer - which if you do great quality, they wouldn't actually care about the certificate)
     
  10. k_richer

    k_richer Member

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    If you work in the automotive industry as a tier 1 or 2 you absolutely HAVE to have at least iso 9001. Ford, GM, etc and their T1 suppliers wouldn't even give you a chance to quote if you didn't at least have that certificate. not to mention TS 16949 (or whatever the new one is called), and the only reason we are not required to obtain TS is because we are not high production.

    Lol, so no I wouldn't say "if you do great quality, they wouldn't actually care about the certificate"

    We have great quality from a customer view, and from what I've seen we only have maximum 1 customer NCR's a year. They cost us a LOT of money, so we need to catch those in house.
    It's just our system could be streamlined more, and more controlled.
     
  11. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    I understand, however, they are more likely interested in keeping the certificate, which is relatively easy... And there are still many companies which are STILL not certified and who still continue to supply the automotive marketplace...

    My point was more to do with helping create a sense of ownership by the management team, above all else.
     
  12. Randy A. Kaczynski

    Randy A. Kaczynski Member

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    • The management system is no longer just the in the domain of the quality manager. The requirement to ensure that the QMS integrates with the business processes, thereby automatically demanding the involvement of all the process owners. 3rd party audits will be focused on how top management leads the quality management system, takes accountability for the results of the quality management system, and ensures the quality management system achieves its intended results.
    • Top management need to demonstrate their leadership, involvement and commitment to the QMS, in the following areas:
      1. Establish the quality policy and quality objectives and their compatibility with the context and strategic direction.
      2. Integrate QMS with the Business Management System
      3. Accountability for QMS effectiveness. (Top management can delegate, but not their accountability that the QMS achieves its intended results.)
      4. Ensuring that the resources needed for the quality management system are available (people, equipment, space, tools, etc.).
      5. Communicate the importance and need for conformity of the QMS, promoting the process approach, risk-based thinking, customer satisfaction and continual improvement.
      6. Ensuring that the significant risks and opportunities that can have an impact on the achievement of the system objectives that can affect conformity of products and services and the ability to enhance customer satisfaction are determined and addressed.
      7. Leaders need to ensure that the effectiveness of the system is maintained during improvement and other organizational changes.
      8. Supporting other relevant management roles to demonstrate their leadership as it applies to their areas of responsibility.
      9. Ensuring that policies and objectives are appropriate for continual improvement of the quality management system and for the achievement of customer satisfaction.
      10. Ensuring that the policies and objectives are communicated, understood and applied throughout the organization.
     
  13. MP480

    MP480 Member

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    This sounds exactly like my situation. Wow.
     
  14. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    Objectively, it's a good indicator that your management has its own way to discuss certain issues and to take decisions. Speak the same organizational language (as RoxaneB said). Find those things that your organization has equivalent to ISO's requirements. It's easier to tweak an existing approach than to introduce an "ISO norm" that maybe alien to them.
     
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  15. johnnymo77

    johnnymo77 Active Member

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    I believe you may need to be IATF16949 and ISO9001:2015 if you are a Tier 1 automotive supplier.
     
  16. k_richer

    k_richer Member

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    Lol no
     
  17. k_richer

    k_richer Member

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    Eeek, then you feel the pain!
     
  18. The PPAP Assassin

    The PPAP Assassin Active Member

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    Hello! So, I am lucky enough to be in a "non-automotive" QA environment. I started my career working within ISO/TS 16949:2009 at a few companies (PPAP coordinator, etc). And for that I am grateful. I look at it like my obedience school haha.. I since then made a deal with myself to NEVER work in automotive ever again. And boy does it feel great!! I am starting a job soon that has a basic ISO 9001:2008 QMS that needs overhauled and transitioned to 2015 with a very laid back registrar doing their renewals and surveillance audits (who doesn't love an easy auditor?). I am excited because they have design exclusions as well :) Even BETTER!!!
    Anyways, where I am at now has the same issues as you with top management not being involved with anything. I slowly have been introducing the new requirements and have them better on track, but during your management review (BTW tell them that IS the new name for their "quality board meeting"...) stress the importance of clause 5.1.1. Tell them they could lose their ISO cert if they do not comply. Be assertive, but also informative. Give examples in your presentation. (I use power point for all my management reviews) make colorful charts and diagrams.. ect. Get their attention. Maybe work with the president or owner to propose a new quality policy, risk management plan, any continual improvement projects.. Good luck!!
     
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  19. k_richer

    k_richer Member

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    Lucky!
    My first position, and where I started learning about quality systems had design exclusion, and now, at my new job, we have a huge design team, so its been a hard transition learning how to incorporate the design aspect. Especially because they kind of love to do their own thing (I like to say that working here is like herding cats). So, I am jealous about the design exclusion.

    Thanks for the info!
     
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  20. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Of course! It's their natural creativity...

    So, when looking to put some structure into a new product design process, be sure to include those oh-so-important design reviews with other functions (marketing, sales, manufacturing, key suppliers, QC/labs) to ensure that the designs don't get changed because of errors made by designers being (too) creative! The cost of design changes after product release can be $$$$, even if the final product gets to market on time and without errors! Field failures cost even more, of course...
     
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