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Timing of the evaluation of effectiveness of the actions to address risks and opportunities

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by tony s, Aug 11, 2019.

  1. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    During a certification audit of a government agency, a CB auditor criticized the timing of the agency on when actions to address risks/opportunities are evaluated for effectiveness. According to the CB auditor, evaluation should be carried out more frequently by the process owners themselves and not as practiced by the agency.

    The practice of the agency is: when they perform their internal audit for the scheduled processes, the internal auditors are tasked to evaluate the actions specified in the RBT planning tool (i.e. risks/opportunities register) accomplished for each process. The internal auditors look for evidences on whether the specified actions were implemented in order to achieved the process expected outputs. The results of these evaluations are reported during their quarterly management meeting.

    The CB auditor find this approach ineffective, since internal audits are usually performed not in a regular basis while evaluation by the process owners can be done more frequently.

    What's your take on this?
     
  2. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Firstly, the auditor isn't being objective - that's purely their opinion since there's no evidence of an ineffectiveness as a result of this timing being reported. The audits are done whenever you want them to be done. The auditor needs to hold their tongue.
     
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  3. Bev D

    Bev D Moderator Staff Member

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    OR find (with objective evidence) that the risk process is ineffective AND that an ‘infrequent’ audit process is a contributing factor to the ineffectiveness. ?
     
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  4. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if CB auditors use the International Accreditation Forum Auditing Practices Group Guidance as their reference on how they perform their audits. According to the APG Guidance on Risk-Based Thinking, dated January 13, 2016:

    In answering the question:
    “Does the organization evaluate the effectiveness of the actions to address risks and opportunities?”

    APG Guidance mentioned that:
    “The auditor should confirm if internal audits and performance evaluation activities take into account the effective application of risk-based thinking”.

    You can check this out in this link (see the last two bullet statements).
     
  5. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    I do! The answer is "No". Maybe a few are knowledgeable about the existence, but for the most part both CBs and their auditors rarely reference this material.

    “The auditor should confirm if internal audits and performance evaluation activities take into account the effective application of risk-based thinking”.

    They would, if they knew what "risk-based thinking" actually is (which the general population struggle with, too...)
     
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