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The difference between quality objectives and process performance.

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by donchon, Nov 12, 2018.

  1. donchon

    donchon Member

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    Hello.

    4.4 says an organization shall manage processes by using performance indicator.
    6.2 shows quality objectives.
    If you see 9.3 c), an organization shall put quality objectives and process performance into its management review as inputs.

    Here's my question.

    1. An organization shall establish KPIs of both quality objectives and process performance?

    2. Do those two(objectives and process performance) happen to has the same KPIs?

    In 6.2, it says, the organizzation shall establish objectives at processes, which means quality objectives includes process performance?
    When I visited dozens of companies, some companies do not distinguish KPIs of quality objectives from process performance.


    I am confused. I will be waiting for the answers.

    Thank you.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
  2. Qualmx

    Qualmx Well-Known Member

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    1 yes on both
    2 one thing is process other is quality objectives.
    3 yes, quality objectives, include process performances.
    Regards
     
  3. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    Clause 4.4.1c mentioned performance indicator to determine effectiveness of the process. Effectiveness means achieving the planned results. The words performance and objective are terms related to result. As per ISO 9000:2015, performance is defined as "measurable result" while objective means "result to be achieved".

    Performance indicators help us in determining whether the process performance (i.e. measurable result) is going up or down. They provide us vital information if our process is doing good or bad, depending on the location of our objective (i.e. result to be achieved).
     
    Daniel Padilla T likes this.
  4. BufferMess

    BufferMess Member

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    Process performance is related to "the effectiveness of the QMS and its processes".
    Quality objectives are related to "the context and strategic direction of the organization".

    See 4.4.1c and 5.1.1b
     
  5. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    How does your organization currently measure its performance - if at all?
     
  6. donchon

    donchon Member

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    I am not currently working for a company with ISO9001. I work for a government organization that has no Quality Management System.
     
  7. donchon

    donchon Member

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    Thanks a lot. It does help me understand clearly.

    But I still do not understand what "depending on the location of our objective (i.e. result to be achieved)." means.
     
  8. donchon

    donchon Member

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    Thank you for the answer.

    So do you mean there have to be two indicators of process performance and quality objectives and those indicators have to be established separately?
     
  9. BufferMess

    BufferMess Member

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    Process KPIs are set at process level. Quality objectives are set at organizational level.

    Process effectiveness is measured to evaluate process performance. Quality objectives are measured to evaluate performance of the organization.

    Process management is responsible for the process performance. Top management is responsible for quality objectives.
     
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  10. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    Not entirely accurate. Clause 6.2 requires that "The organization shall establish quality objectives at relevant functions, levels and processes..."
     
  11. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    In monitoring a particular performance indicator, this might go up or down. Performance indicators like rejection rate, breakdown rate or number of late deliveries will look good if its going down approaching zero. If your objective is set or located at zero, this will look bad if the indicator is going up.
     
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  12. BufferMess

    BufferMess Member

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    We still need top management, allocation of resources and responsibilities for setting an objective to a lower level, function or process.
     
  13. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

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    This is true, as long as management knows what is going on. Sometimes they understand objectives but are not familiar enough with the processes to define KPIs.

    From Vinehouse (I am not affiliated), which put it simply:

    Objectives are what you need to achieve.

    KPIs are the measures that tell you if you are on the way to achieving your objective or not. They are indicators and they give you an indication of what is going on.
     
  14. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    That doesn't necessarily mean they don't measure themselves. Plenty of organizations don't have ISO 9000/QMS but still measure their performance to goals.
     
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