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Referencing ISO Clauses in QMS documentation ?

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by Suraiya Ramkissoon, Feb 8, 2019.

  1. Suraiya Ramkissoon

    Suraiya Ramkissoon Member

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    Hi guys,

    i was wondering, is there a specific way in which you reference ISO Clauses? See snip below of how I chose to reference 8.4, does this seem ok?

    upload_2019-2-8_11-30-27.png

    feedback appreciated.

    Suriaya
     
  2. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    In your QMS documentation? No need to reference anything ISO.
     
  3. Suraiya Ramkissoon

    Suraiya Ramkissoon Member

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    are you sure? don't you reference which clause this procedure is applicable to? so it shows overall how you comply with the requirements?
     
  4. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Complying with requirements isn't achieved by referencing a clause in the standard. You can put any number in a document you want, doesn't mean it complies. No-one who reads your procedures is interested in ISO clauses. I'd suggest YOU make a matrix for reference for your CB auditor (if you want to help them) and so you know which document relates to which requirement.
     
  5. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

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    Just imagine the workload, Suraiya, if/when the standard changes and/or your organization decides to pursue registration to other standards. Every single one of your documents will need to be revised, approved, released. Every. Single. One. If you only have a handful of documents not a big deal, but still unnecessary work for a bunch of people.

    A skilled auditor is able to figure it out pretty quickly - a procedure about suppliers probably goes with any requirements about suppliers - but if you feel like being nice, providing coffee, lunch, and a handy matrix to your auditor may go a long way. ;)

    Such a matrix may also help in the planning of internal audits, but, there is no need to reference the clause in the document.

    Your organization demonstrates compliance to the requirements by actually doing what they said they do, doing what they should be doing, and achieving what they should be achieving...and doing all of that consistently.
     
  6. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    Andy and Roxane are right. Don't reference your QMS documents to ISO 9001 clauses. A good auditor doesn't need them. The users/implementors of the documented procedure don't need them either. Better reference the other documented procedures that are interrelated to a specific procedure (e.g. reference Corrective Action Procedure with Internal Audit Procedure or with Complaints Handling Procedure). In this way, any change in one can trigger an update on another.
     
  7. Suraiya Ramkissoon

    Suraiya Ramkissoon Member

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    Thank you everyone for helping me to see the light.... I was indeed being too "nitty gritty" and it is unnecessary work. What I will do is start developing my Macro Compliance matrix.
     

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