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RBT confusing?

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by Qualmx, Jan 6, 2018.

  1. Qualmx

    Qualmx Well-Known Member

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    In Tc 176 rbt, which Iso provides as support, I perceive RBT in a confused way, could someone clarify this issue?
    In the risk crossing the road, it shows the options to face risks as opportunities, while I consider them as actions to mitigate the risks.
    If I face a risk, I propose plans to lower (mitigate) the risks, and for opportunities, I take this approach: an opportunity it may be an isolated case for improvement in any process or when a risk appears, and I define the plans to mitigate it, an opportunity , may be to look for additional risk around the original risk.
    Please share your criteria.
    Thank you so much.
     
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  2. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

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    There have been many complaints about the examples TC 176 used in their paper on Risk. Your description of your own thinking is spot-on, do not let the RBT paper convince you otherwise.
     
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  3. Raffy

    Raffy Member

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    You can refer to A.4 Risk-based thinking of ISO 9001:2015 standard. It may somehow enlighten you. I hope this helps.
     
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  4. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    According to ISO/TS 9002:2016 clause 6.1.1:
    "The intent of this subclause is to ensure that when planning the quality management system processes, the organization determines its risks and opportunities and plans actions to address them."

    So my criteria concerning RBT is like this:
    1. Start planning by analyzing a specific process;
    2. Determine its planned results;
    3. Determine the risks:
    Risk - adversely affects the achievement of the planned result;​
    4. Determine the opportunities:
    Opportunity - beneficially affects the achievement of the planned result;​
    5. Determine the existing control that already addresses the risk;
    6. Determine opportunities including the actions to realize them;
    7. Integrate and implement the actions into the existing controls of the process.
    8. Since the standard requires evaluation of effectiveness, verify effectiveness during internal audit and/or management review.

    For example: If I analyze the risks/opportunities of the Material Procurement process, I'll have something like this:
    upload_2018-1-16_11-13-27.png
     
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  5. Qualmx

    Qualmx Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Tony.
    Two points:
    The opportunity could be the mitigation to lower the value of risk?
    On the other hand, could you give your opinion regarding exactly what to review and monitor in 4.1 and 4.2?
    Thank you
     
  6. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    When the standard mentions (in Clause 6.1.2) "The organization shall plan a) actions to address these risks and opportunities...", I'm looking at three important things here:
    ACTIONS
    RISKS
    OPPORTUNITIES​
    To answer your question, I don't see that opportunities mitigate the risks. It's the actions that mitigate the risks. Actions can also facilitate the realization of the opportunities.

    I believe review of information concerning 4.1 and 4.2 can be best demonstrated during the management review. To clarify my position, see below:
    Clause 9.3.2b - intends to review information relevant to 4.1
    Clause 9.3.2c.1 - intends to review information relevant to 4.2​

    About the information that you need to monitor, refer to Notes 1,2 and 3 of 4.1. For 4.1, monitor the interested parties' requirements, feedback, perceptions, complaints, etc. Obtaining a copy of ISO/TS 9002:2016 is also helpful in understanding the requirements of ISO 9001:2015.
     
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  7. Qualmx

    Qualmx Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Tonys
    Very helpful your explanation, the evidences of these the activities of monitoring and reviewing should be kept?
    I mean if I found something, will be reported, but if found nothing, what action evidences that I did the review and monitoring should I have?

    Again Thanks you so much
     

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