1. Hello and Welcome to The Quality Forum Online...Continuing in the spirit of People Helping People !
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
You must be a registered member in order to post messages and view/download attached files in this forum.
Click here to register.

Process audit findings- training process & Competencies

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by OFDOBAIDI, Jan 22, 2018.

  1. OFDOBAIDI

    OFDOBAIDI Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2018
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1

    Dear all,

    How can we classify (Non-conformance, observation and OFI) the below finding audits?

    1. Risks does not addressed for the training process.

    2. All training records does not have ISO reference, and does not managed by control of document procedure.

    3. Responsibilities & authorities assigned on departmental level, so I cannot know who will publish the training plan from the process flowchart.

    4. Competencies matrix does not managed by control of document procedure.

    Best regards,

     
  2. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    2,070
    Likes Received:
    1,076
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    Simple! A nonconformity is all that's needed. The others aren't necessary.

    To deal with what you've stated:

    1. Not a requirement. No noconformity
    2. Not a requirement. No nonconformity
    3. Did you talk to anyone? Not a nonconformity, yet
    4. Is it approved etc? Is it controlled by other means? Not a nonconformity, yet.
     
    OFDOBAIDI likes this.
  3. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    662
    Likes Received:
    479
    Trophy Points:
    62
    Location:
    USA
    What would happen if training was not done as needed?

    Is the matrix a record?
     
    OFDOBAIDI likes this.
  4. OFDOBAIDI

    OFDOBAIDI Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2018
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    No
     
  5. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    2,070
    Likes Received:
    1,076
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    What type of audit is this? Internal? CB or external audit? Are you the auditor or are you responsible for correcting these? It would help to know this information.
     
    OFDOBAIDI likes this.
  6. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    662
    Likes Received:
    479
    Trophy Points:
    62
    Location:
    USA
    If the matrix is not a record, it is likely a tool for planning training needs. As such there is little practical reason for revision controlling it. The standard does not require it. If you don't, then the auditor cannot realistically require it of you.

    What would happen if training was not done as needed?
     
    OFDOBAIDI likes this.
  7. OFDOBAIDI

    OFDOBAIDI Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2018
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    What type of audit is this? Internal
    Are you the auditor or are you responsible for correcting these? I am the auditor
     
  8. OFDOBAIDI

    OFDOBAIDI Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2018
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1


    1. Not a requirement. No noconformity
    The auditee identified the training process as one of processes needed for the quality management, so in this case how can we deal with 4.4.1.f requirement?

    2. Not a requirement. No nonconformity
    As I know, training records are from the mandatory records required by ISO 9001:20015.

    3. Did you talk to anyone? Not a nonconformity, yet
    Sorry I did not get your point.

    4. Is it approved etc? Yes
    Is it controlled by other means? No
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
  9. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    2,070
    Likes Received:
    1,076
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
     
    OFDOBAIDI likes this.
  10. OFDOBAIDI

    OFDOBAIDI Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2018
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    1. Not a requirement. No noconformity
    The auditee identified the training process as one of processes needed for the quality management, so in this case how can we deal with 4.4.1.f requirement? Plenty of ways that don't involve the training process. You reported that risks haven't been addressed in the training process. There's no ISO requirement to do that.
    Thank you.

    2. Not a requirement. No nonconformity
    As I know, training records are from the mandatory records required by ISO 9001:20015. Yes, but only when you carry out training. Has any training been carried out to create records? Yes
    one small question, if the record is mandatory, does it mean it should be control according to 7.5 requirements?


    3. Did you talk to anyone? Not a nonconformity, yet
    Sorry I did not get your point. Your statement is incomplete - did you actually ask anyone in management who is responsible? Yes

    4. Is it approved etc? Yes
    Is it controlled by other means? No So that's easy to fix. How
     
  11. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    2,070
    Likes Received:
    1,076
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    • Welcome!

    • Of course

    • And the result was? Did you talk to the process owner?

    • Put the competencies matrix under document control
     

Share This Page