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Practical examples of opportunities (6.1)

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by Qualmx, Nov 9, 2017.

  1. Qualmx

    Qualmx Well-Known Member

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    Hi all
    Cold you give some examples of opportunities linked to risks?
    It is somewhat confusing the example given in the iso tc 176, for me is mitigation,not opportunity to install additional a subway, signals,etc.
    Please give some practical ideas of opp. and mitigation.
    Thanks
     
  2. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Cost savings using a different supplier = risk
    Doing business with a new customer you never served before = risk
    Taking on more people to serve existing customers because they want more good stuff from us = risk

    Qualmx - don't over think these things. It's not as difficult as you think it is. Just got to think it through.
     
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  3. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    Opportunities can stem from risks, for example:
    • limited manpower (risk) ----> provide interventions to enhance competence (opportunity);
    • not getting what you wanted (risk) ----> look for alternative (opportunity);
    • not achieving the set target (risk) ----> determine the appropriateness of the actions taken (opportunity);
    • approving authority is not available (risk) ----> designate an officer-in-charge in his/her absence (opportunity);
    • incoming purchased products are deficient (risk) ----> establish procedure for inspection (opportunity)
     
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  4. Qualmx

    Qualmx Well-Known Member

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    Hanks Tonys, but for example in last case,wouldnt be mitigation? And the opportunity could be o ther improvement around this risk, ?e.g. to inspect other areas, raw materials?
    P lease Explain thanks
     
  5. Qualmx

    Qualmx Well-Known Member

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    I'lĺ Explain, the approach I follow is , when I detect a risk, I do a mitigation (action plan) ,and around this risk I look for an oportunity, tat could be an improvement close to this issue.
    In other time, I may have an improvement but not associated to a risk, I consider this an opportunity .
    Do you think is valid my approach?
    Tanks for helping me
     
  6. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    If, by "I", do you mean you do everything?
     
  7. Qualmx

    Qualmx Well-Known Member

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    No, Im a QMS manager, and do the question like if I were a process owner.
    Thanks Andy.
    These could be a silly questions, but honestly the standard specially in risk, it gives just a vague idea.
     
  8. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    There are no silly questions, however, it's not worth over analyzing. The standards pretty clear, really, and not vague. Identify those internal and external issues which affect the QMS, take into consideration the needs and expectations of your interested parties, develop your (strategic) plan and develop your quality process(es) to address the issue(s). It's just that simple. I posted an example earlier regarding skilled machinists to describe what should happen. I don't agree the standard is vague - it's not. I believe people read too much into what's wanted. Don't forget that ISO 9001 is written to be implemented by organizations which are not very sophisticated, or mature, so it can't be too complex doing risk based thinking.
     
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  9. Nick1

    Nick1 Member

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    I agree that the standard is clear on this however drawing your own boundaries can be vague. You can go as far as you would like to go and even include macro economical changes in your risk assessment. It is not right or wrong it might make the complete assessment a bit far fetched because. That is why it is important to not make it too complex like your said. I do see companies struggle with setting these boundaries though.

    @Qualmx
    How about a risk linked to an opportunity? Closing that big contract but facing the risk of cashflow problems, maybe it requires a loan for raw materials or investment in machinery.
     
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  10. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Can you explain what you mean? I see no need for "boundaries" in ISO 9001
     
  11. Qualmx

    Qualmx Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Nick, is the other way
    Facing a risk, I do mitigation plan, and around this, I look an opportunity, naturally, if I take this opportunity ,I may face another risk.

    Thanks
     
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  12. Nick1

    Nick1 Member

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    Hi Andy, there are indeed no boundaries from an ISO 9001 perspective, what I mean is boundaries from a practical perspective. Which risks do you note down based on levels within the company. We see a lot of companies at least try to guide the risk management because there are a lot of risks on different levels of the company, Strategic/operational/financial/legislation. Sometimes they come up with high level strategic risks and mix this with very concrete operational risks on a certain production line. Of course nothing wrong with this but they tell us they try to make it till a certain level.
     
  13. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Can you help me understand this? Who is "they"?
     
  14. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    The statement of clause 6.1.1 only mentioned "When planning for the QMS..." I agree that this statement in ISO 9001 did not mention about levels of planning. Even the statement of clause 10.2.1e which says "update risks and opportunities determined during planning..." did not specify what level of planning. Materials previously released by ISO/TC 176 can be helpful to understand the level of planning where risks and opportunities are to be determined. Refer to the slide below:

    upload_2017-11-16_7-55-56.png

    I also attached the complete presentation for your reference.
     

    Attached File(s): 1. Scan for viruses before using. 2. Report any 'bad' files by reporting this post. 3. Use at your own Risk.:

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  15. Nick1

    Nick1 Member

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    They as in companies we work with. Within these companies this sometimes is higher management or quality managers.
     

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