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Objective evidence required?

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by JimJunon, Sep 3, 2021.

  1. JimJunon

    JimJunon New Member

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    Hello all,

    Hope you can help with a quick query I have - apologies if this has been asked before.

    My organisation has recently published some new objectives for our production areas.

    Delivery/Quality/Safety targets etc - all of which have tracking systems/sheets behind them to evidence our current performance vs target.

    However one Environment target is causing me concern, it is for production areas to conduct power down operations - the target is "Completed: Yes/No"
    Where areas have put "Completed: Yes" I have asked for evidence behind this, such as, Specifically what power down tasks have been completed? what power down tasks are required for the area? how often should these be completed? are management reviews conducted to ensure completion? etc.
    I've been told it isn't required to document any of this, it's up to the area's local knowledge and to just put Yes if completed or No if not completed.

    Is there a potential that we're offside somewhere here? or am I looking too much into this?

    Thanks in advance for any help/guidance.
     
  2. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    Objective is defined as "result to be achieved" and is required to be monitored. According to clause 9.1.1: "The organization shall retain appropriate documented information as evidence of the results". Therefore, it is just proper to ask the basis for the "Yes" answer.
     
  3. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    JimJunon - You posted this in the ISO 9001:2015 forum. Can you clarify the question is about an Environmental objective as part of your QMS? I agree with your concern about an unmeasurable objective (yes/No) but at the same time am struggling to see the validity of an environmental objective which is part of a QMS implementation. How does THAT work?
     
    Oleh Haievskyi likes this.
  4. yodon

    yodon Well-Known Member

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    Pending your response to @Andy Nichols very appropriate questions, when you say the above, it sounds like it IS documented (they wrote "Yes"?). Not very strong but it is documented and probably defensible.

    Besides maybe counting 'yes' responses, what is the overall objective here? Reduced electrical bills?
     
    Andy Nichols likes this.
  5. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

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    Welcome Jim!

    I don't understand what "conduct power down operations" means. What makes this an objective?

    It is possible to have yes/no outcomes. Both quantitative (measured) or qualitative (is/is not or yes/no) are expected to be reported as part of management review. This can happen in a tiered structure for larger organizations, and/or directly to the management team. It is expected that any of the intercepting management levels addresses the reported metric, with or without validation. The means to properly record the status is defined as part of the process in that area and time in which it happens.

    In short, it should be part of procedure in process to collect data, not the job of data recipients to verify how and when it all happened.

    I hope this makes sense.