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Looking to purchase a CMM (used or new)

Discussion in 'Sampling, Standards and Inspection' started by Bazinga, Aug 21, 2015.

  1. Bazinga

    Bazinga Member

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    I am looking into the possibility of purchasing a CMM (used or new). What type do you use and what do you like/ dislike about it? My boss wants me to gather some information for him, so any help here will be greatly appreciated.
     
  2. Claes Gefvenberg

    Claes Gefvenberg Moderator Staff Member

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    My CMM days are long gone, but the best choice depends a lot on what you are going to use it for?
     
  3. Eric Twiname

    Eric Twiname Well-Known Member

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    Howdy Bazinga...long time no see.

    I have used both MicroVu Vertex and OGP Flare.
    MicroVu is tremendously easy to use and program, with accuracy down in the 0.03mm range across a 6x8" stage in XY. Other stage sizes are available.
    It also lets you lock out users from programmers from administrators in separate priv sets.
    Z distance was by focal length and failed every GRR I threw at it. (So we turn the part sideways and measure in XY...)

    OGP is harder and less intuitive to program, and I hated programming it...but it also gave great resolution in Z using the laser spot attachment.

    Mine is 10 years old...I don't know all the new toys the companies have.
    FWIW, in 10 years the Vertex 120 has had a new z-axis motor and that's it...still running like a champ.

    If you do a number of different parts, make sure to pay attention to programming ease as well as accuracy and repeat-ability.

    HTH
     
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  4. Bazinga

    Bazinga Member

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    Hi Eric,
    The same as well goes for you..
    Thank you for the information. If I can convince my boss that we need one, then I do plan on entering a lot of parts into the system. So ease of programming is going to be important. We make metal brackets, our largest part is around 9" X 6" X 4" so I am not looking for a large table CMM. I will look into those 2 brand names.

    Thanks again and nice talking with you.
     
  5. James

    James Active Member

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    One thing you might do is find out what your customers are using. We have an international customer that uses Zeiss CMMs with Calypso software. Their CMM room will share their programs with us. That made Zeiss with Calypso a no brainer. Buying something refurbished that still has warranties can be handy, especially when that includes the training. Purchasing something that comes with a week of programming training can get all your parts programmed with help. I've looked into after market classes and they aren't cheap.
     
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  6. Bazinga

    Bazinga Member

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    Thanks James for the helpful information. Great idea about customer and sharing of programs.
     
  7. Alex Filip

    Alex Filip New Member

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    Try a 3D Optical Scanner with blue light. There are many brands on the market, but the best I've tried until now it's GOM. It's much faster than a CMM and you, according to the scanner model you choose, you can use it anywhere (laboratory, production line, maintenance...etc.). It has also a wireless touching probe so it can be used also as a CMM and the scanner has a similar accuracy as a CMM (under 10 ┬Ám).
    If you still want a CMM, then I recommend a Zeiss, Mitutoyo or Nikon.
     
  8. Bazinga

    Bazinga Member

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    Alex, how difficult is it to program? I will have to look into that, never knew about the 3D Optical Scanner. Thanks, beginning to learn some new things.
     
  9. BettyJo

    BettyJo New Member

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    I have an OGP Flash and it's not difficult to program but I am looking into the Zeiss w/Calypso just because of some of the limitations on size of parts that I can measure with the OGP. The OGP is a workhorse though and I am pleased with it.
     
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  10. tabor

    tabor Member

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    For ease of programming, I recommend CMM-Manager. What's your budget?
     
  11. Bazinga

    Bazinga Member

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    I am still working with the owner on that. He just asked me to gather the information and he will then decide what the budget will be.
     
  12. tabor

    tabor Member

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    If you can make it, there's a Quality trade show in Chicago in October.

    www.qualityshow.com
     
  13. Bazinga

    Bazinga Member

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    Thanks Tabor, I am hoping that we can make it.
     
  14. BradM

    BradM Moderator Staff Member

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    Bazinga, you ask an excellent question.

    What I would ask is, what are you wanting to do with it? What is your competitive dimension? Sitting down with your boss and developing a game plan (like an informal functional requirement) would be a good idea.

    How much are you going to spend?
    How quickly do you need to retool? Do you need to retool?
    How many people will your boss pay to keep trained and have programming access?
    Is this tool going to be used for meeting existing business; or gaining new business?

    So say you have a small shop, small number of customers, and make a relatively small number of different parts. I can get a low-cost, simple CMM to perform those functions.

    However, if we are wanting to expand the variety of parts made; lower retooling/program time; increase production speed; etc.; your company may need to look towards an investment in this machine.

    Look at doing a simply make/buy comparison among not buying at all, buying a cheap one, and buying a nice one. This should let you know where the indifference point is, and how much volume you will need to meet the cost requirements of your different decisions.
     
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  15. tabor

    tabor Member

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    This is a very important question for your management. Most CMM failures are because no one wanted to spend money on training and keeping qualified people.
     
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  16. Eric Twiname

    Eric Twiname Well-Known Member

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    FWIW...we use the Micro-Vu Vertex and have 6+ people trained for programming...the programming of it is so easy that just about anyone can be trained to it well and quickly.

    When looking at comparable models, the programming logic was a bit more obscure and would have limited the ability to have redundancy in programmers.
     
  17. Bazinga

    Bazinga Member

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    Thanks for the info. That is an important part of the equation, ease of programming, it is almost as important as the price.
     
  18. hogheavenfarm

    hogheavenfarm Well-Known Member

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    As Brad says -
    "So say you have a small shop, small number of customers, and make a relatively small number of different parts. I can get a low-cost, simple CMM to perform those functions.

    However, if we are wanting to expand the variety of parts made; lower retooling/program time; increase production speed; etc.; your company may need to look towards an investment in this machine."



    Take a page from Lean here, from repeated personal experience, when you start talking CMM the boss wants it to fit everything. Forget that. Target 80% of the product and do the other 20% some other way, "many speedboats not an ocean liner". You can always expand capacity if you need to, but over capacity is waste, and expensive. I pushed for a small cmm here but the boss said "we make parts bigger than that!" so he got an 8 foot Faro arm - so big and bulky I hardly ever use it, it is easier to measure that part by hand. I could have easily used a 12x14 table instead and used it almost all the time.
     
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  19. Bazinga

    Bazinga Member

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    Thanks Hog, that is what the production manager and I have been talking about ourselves. We had learned our lesson when we bought a vision camera, they were trying to put everything in the camera. The were putting the width of the part in when it was faster to check the width at the machine with a pair of caliper's.
     
  20. Tom Waite

    Tom Waite Member

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    I see you are from the GR area - We used River City Metrology to upgrade our CMM recently. They are down on 29th street in GR. They might be able to help with info and quotations.
     

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