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Job description ethics

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by CRISTIAN PELTEA, Jun 2, 2021.

  1. CRISTIAN PELTEA

    CRISTIAN PELTEA Member

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    Hello dear colleagues,

    I gladly joined this forum which helped me understat a lot more from ISO 9001 and is a pleasure to read your posts here.

    I kindly ask for a little bit of an advice regarding the job description, especially with notes that sounds like "he will do some other things which are not written in the current job description".
    How could I prove that this clauses are outside the ethics boundaries, is there anything that could be also used from the ISO 9001 (7.2 Competence)?

    I hope my post will be interesting for any of you and to find the best arguments here!

    All the best!
    Cristian
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2021
  2. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    Good day @CRISTIAN PELTEA ;
    Not sure I understand what you are asking.
    Likewise, I'm not sure where you are located, so I can only speak to what I am familiar with in my location.
    Here in the States, it is very common (I'm not endorsing, just stating a fact) for an organization's job description to end with a statement such as...
    "and anything else asked by leadership".

    As you know, clause 7.2 simply indicates that an organization shall ensure that an individual is competent . However, ISO 9001 also allows (requires) the organization to "determine the competency necessary".

    If you are looking towards ISO 9001 to prevent leadership from asking an individual to perform work beyond what their initial/purported job description was/is, then....I'm afraid you're out of luck.

    Hope this helps.

    Be well.
     
  3. CRISTIAN PELTEA

    CRISTIAN PELTEA Member

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    Thank you, John!

    I'm located in Eastern Europe - Romania.
    I was wondering if this aspect could be a problem for a certification body when they are asking to analyse a job description.
    As far as I know, the job description must be very clear and should be updated with new jobs which the employ handle and agree with the employer.
    Anyhow, I'm glad to know your opinion!

    Best regards,
    Cristian
     
  4. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    Based on what I understand in your original post, @CRISTIAN PELTEA , then no, I do not see how that (in itself) can be a concern.

    Remember, competence is defined as follows (ISO 900:2015)...

    3.10.4
    competence
    ability to apply knowledge and skills to achieve the intended results

    Your organization will need to demonstrate that associates are able to do this for the jobs that they are responsible for.

    Hope this helps.

    Be well.
     
  5. CRISTIAN PELTEA

    CRISTIAN PELTEA Member

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    John, you helped me a lot!
    Thank you so much!
     
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  6. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    FWIW - @John C. Abnet hit various nails well and squarely on their heads...
     
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  7. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

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    Job descriptions are so confining. They are typically used for more than their intended use: to help find candidates. If you must use job descriptions for structuring performance expectations, they could include "weasel words" such as "or equivalent", or "as suitable", and/or "and may perform other duties as needed."
     
    CRISTIAN PELTEA likes this.
  8. CRISTIAN PELTEA

    CRISTIAN PELTEA Member

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    Thank you, Jennifer!
    In some cases, in Romania, you can meet "top management“ which can say "today you have to take my kids from school" even if your job is to be an engineer or anything but not the company driver - that happened to me also when I had my first job ten years ago.
    This was an example of how things can get interpreted on "other things which are not filled in the current job description".

    Thank you for time!
     
  9. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

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    Heck, my first job I had to go cash the bosses check so he had cash for the weekend. Picking up lunch was a typical task as well. :)
     
  10. Mahaveer Jain

    Mahaveer Jain Member

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    Hi in this case if you are an auditor raise Non conformance on concerned auditee. Because if that is the case they want to retain that note it shoud state that "he will do some other things in which he is competent that are not written in the current job description" .
    Why you this will be NC incase you are asked to conduct a non destructive testing it clearly states a competency level of SNT TC LEVEL 1 minimum qualification for performing test. Say for example you are not competent to operate a crane if you are forced under that note to perform that job safety issues may arise hence note has to be re modified
     
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  11. CRISTIAN PELTEA

    CRISTIAN PELTEA Member

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    Thank you for your kind support!

    For me it was just a feeling that something is wrong in this text, it's my first year in internal audit and I would like to gaine more experience.
    Everyone's statement helped me to have a much better vision for this matter and you make me fell very welcome, thank you!
     
  12. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    If an NC will be raised, this will be against 8.5.1e ("the appointment of competent persons, including any required qualification"). Clause 7.1.2 can also be used ("provide the persons necessary...for the operation and control of its processes").
     
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