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ISO 21500 - how to implement?

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2008 - Quality Management Systems' started by Kranis, Jul 8, 2020.

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  1. Kranis

    Kranis Member

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    Can´t find a subforum for ISO 21500 so I hope it´s OK I post it here.

    I have a question about ISO 21500 - which my company wants to implement in the near feature.

    Is it possible to be certified in ISO 21500? If not, is there any other way to claim that my company is following the processes described in ISO 21500?

    Thanks!
     
  2. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Welcome! Since ISO 21500 is guidance, the answer is no, an organization cannot be certified. Project Management is - generally speaking - a personnel qualification, as you probably know. In the USA, the Project Management Institute (PMI.org) have comprehensive training and qualification processes which I have had some experience of. That's the type of certification typically available on this topic.
     
  3. Guy Léger

    Guy Léger Member

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    Hi @Kranis
    I think another way you can claim that is to do an audit according to ISO 21500, and to save the record of the audit properly
     
  4. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Who is going to believe that? How do you get qualified/competent to audit something which aren't requirements, but suggestions? You'd have to find someone who a) knows how to audit effectively and b) knows a good deal (or practices) project management. Other wise, save time and money and simply say you comply to anyone who asks...
     
  5. Guy Léger

    Guy Léger Member

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    You are right @Andy Nichols...there are three types of audit: internal, external and third party audit according to ISO 19011:2018...and an audit can also be done according to one or more standards
     
  6. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Right, but ISO 21500 IS NOT a requirement like ISO 9001. Let me ask you a question: If you were auditing against the Project Management Guide (ISO 21500) and and it states "for complex projects, a Work Breakdown Structure Dictionary may be developed and maintained", how would you audit that? You are given a project folder and talking to the Project Manager, how do you begin the conversation?
     
  7. Guy Léger

    Guy Léger Member

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    According to @Kranis their company already follow the processes described in ISO 21500...they just need to claim that. So I can start the conversation by saying that we need to make an ISO 21500 audit to identify the possibility of improvement of the Project Management and to show to the stakeholders that our project management comply with ISO 21500 guidelines
     
  8. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Easy to say - I asked for a practical response How that audit would be done. It's not an academic activity.
     
  9. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Actually that's not true! He said they were going to...
     
  10. Guy Léger

    Guy Léger Member

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  11. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes, and as with those Certification Bodies who offer ISO 26000 assessments, it is against the IAF policy! AFNOR and any IAF member should, out of professionalism, NOT be offering such services. How many other Certification Bodies offer a similar service? Not many because they understand it undermines the confidence which accreditation is supposed to provide! These are NOT requirements, and as a result, no one can be confident in the result, because it doesn't fall under any rules of accreditation. The auditor who is sent, by the CB, may not even be competent. In that case, what is the point? (Other than to take money from an unsuspecting client?)

    Are you familiar with the expression: "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should"?
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
  12. Guy Léger

    Guy Léger Member

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  13. Kranis

    Kranis Member

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    Thanks for all the good and informative answers! We will just write on our homepage that our project managers are working according to 21500.
     
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