Dismiss Notice
You must be a registered member in order to post messages and view/download attached files in this forum.
Click here to register.

Internal Auditor Certification

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by Melanie-Emch, Dec 5, 2018.

  1. Melanie-Emch

    Melanie-Emch New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2018
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Quick Question - We transferred over to the new standard last year ISO 9001:2015 - For Internal Audits, does anyone know if it is a requirement that the person doing them needs to be fully certified? In the past we've always used someone from another department in our company to perform the internal audits, but they were not certified by anyone or any company.

    Thanks,
     
  2. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2017
    Messages:
    255
    Likes Received:
    149
    Trophy Points:
    42
    :

    Good day @Melanie-Emch , and welcome to the site;
    In the context of ISO 9001:2015, there is no such thing as an auditor being "certified".

    ISO 9001:2015 refers only to competency, and that is used generically (i.e. not specific to any specific role, but to all roles that affect the performance of the management system.)

    Below is the text in ISO 9001:2015 , which may be helpful to you...

    7.2 Competence
    The organization shall:
    a) determine the necessary competence of person(s) doing work under its control that affects the
    performance and effectiveness of the quality management system.
    b) ensure that these persons are competent on the basis of appropriate education, training, or experience;
    c) where applicable, take actions to acquire the necessary competence, and evaluate the effectiveness
    of the actions taken;
    d) retain appropriate documented information as evidence of competence.


    Hope this helps.

    Be well.
     
    Stanley likes this.
  3. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    2,751
    Likes Received:
    1,416
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    Melanie-Emch: When you say a "requirement" what are you asking? It's clearly NOT in ISO 9001:2015 and I'm certain you know that. So can I ask why you're asking?
     
  4. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2015
    Messages:
    904
    Likes Received:
    679
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Location:
    Laguna Philippines
    No. There's no requirement in ISO 9001:2015, even in the previous versions. Did somebody require your organization to have your internal auditors certified?
     
  5. Neo113016

    Neo113016 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2018
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    7
    The answer is No.
     
  6. Ali.M

    Ali.M Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2018
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Location:
    Manchester, United Kingdom
    While it is not mandatory for your organisation to have a certified auditor, it definitely helps to have someone with adequate knowledge of ISO 9001:2015 to be able to audit the system. A good knowledge-base of the system that is being audited is necessary but no mandatory.

    Impartiality is also mandatory e.g. you cannot audit yourself.
    I agree with @John C. Abnet that competence is necessary and one way to demonstrate competence is to be formally trained and certified in auditing.
     
  7. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    2,751
    Likes Received:
    1,416
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    Not so! Impartiality means you could be objective in looking at your own work.
     
  8. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2015
    Messages:
    904
    Likes Received:
    679
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Location:
    Laguna Philippines
    In ISO/TS 9002:2016 (Guidelines for the Application of ISO 9001:2015), there is a statement in section 9.2.2 that says:

    When assigning persons to conduct audits, the organization should ensure objectivity and impartiality
    of the audit process. In some cases, specifically in smaller organizations or areas of the organization
    where specific job knowledge is required, it can be necessary for a person to audit their own work.
     
  9. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    2,751
    Likes Received:
    1,416
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    In 20+ years of training people to audit, I'd disagree very much. Without experience, whatever was learned in class even with a 2 hour test is likely meaningless. People with the worst personal attributes can sit in class and take a test and pass - only to fail at auditing because they feel they have to find something...

    No, competency, as defined, is the demonstrated ability to APPLY what was learned in class...
     
    Jennifer Kirley and Arby911 like this.
  10. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2015
    Messages:
    904
    Likes Received:
    679
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Location:
    Laguna Philippines
    The ISO 9001 family of standards (old and new) has the following definition of competence:

    upload_2019-2-2_13-52-9.png
     
    Jennifer Kirley likes this.

Share This Page