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Initiate corrective action/s on nonconforming output/s

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by tony s, Nov 4, 2019.

  1. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    I recently attended a calibration workshop with other consultants for a big project where simultaneous training and coaching sessions are to be provided to a multi-site organization. One area of lively exchange of interpretations is about initiating corrective action in case a nonconforming output occurs.

    My take on this is clause 8.7 does not require corrective action. But appropriate action such as correction, segregation, containment, suspension, return, repair, rework, accept under concession, informing the customer, etc. must be taken. If the organization decides to take action that will prevent the occurrence of a particular nonconforming output, then this is the time that they will have to initiate corrective action as per clause 10.2.

    I would like to know your take on this.
     
    tony s, Nov 4, 2019
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  2. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    This is an example where the expectations of external auditors have become the rule for those (consultants in this case) who don't know the difference.
     
    Andy Nichols, Nov 4, 2019
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  3. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    Some were, actually, startled a bit when I asserted that "I treat 8.7 separately from 10.2".
     
    tony s, Nov 4, 2019
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  4. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    I'd love to have a discussion with such an auditor about, let's say, making scrambled eggs. "What would you do if you made scrambled eggs for breakfast for a group and got one serving wrong?" "Would you go through a detailed root cause?" "Or simply give those eggs to the dog and start over, correcting whatever caused the issue?"...

    If they tried to explain business isn't like that, I'd show them the door...
     
    Andy Nichols, Nov 5, 2019
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  5. Leonid

    Leonid Well-Known Member

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    In this case the organization decided that the corrective action is needed. Classic. 10.2.1 b) requires for the organization to evaluate the need for corrective action. It may be needed or not.
    I wonder how should the auditor take the case when, after the evaluation, the organization decided the corrective action is not needed. Should the auditor ask the organization to provide evidence and explain the rationale of the evaluation?
     
    Leonid, Dec 14, 2019
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  6. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    The auditor may ask. The auditee may explain the reason not to pursue corrective action. However, the auditor should not demand documented evidence of the rationale.
     
    tony s, Dec 15, 2019
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