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IATF 16949 9.2.2.3 Manufacturing Process Audit

Discussion in 'IATF 16949:2016 - Automotive Quality Systems' started by Victoria D, Jan 31, 2018.

  1. Victoria D

    Victoria D Member

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    Does performing layered audits satisfy the requirement for performing manufacturing process audits (9.2.2.3)?
     
  2. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    No, it doesn't. The competency requirements are quite different and the focus is quite different too.
     
  3. Victoria D

    Victoria D Member

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    I read an article and it was a bit confusing as it mentioned layered audits satisfying 9.2.2.3. Sounds like we should continue to "walk-through" control plans for each process then.
     
  4. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Many confuse the two. If you look at Layered Process audits, it tells you that they are for Manufacturing to do. Hence, you can get into bias and a lack of objectivity. Also, they simply focus on compliance to work instructions, not if those instructions are effective (which if you go back to history of LPAs was the root cause). Also, they stick to basocally the same schedule etc. albeit adjusted based on findings. TBH, if people had done effective internal audits of things such as WIs, Control Plans etc. the LPAs wouldn't be necessary!

    I'd suggest doing basically CP audits, with attention to the Process Flow, important Control Points from the PFMEA and other things LPAs ignore. That way you'll discover more important stuff - systematically.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
  5. Victoria D

    Victoria D Member

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    Thanks, Andy. Being new to IATF I have a bit of a learning curve ahead of me and appreciate your feedback.
     
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  6. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    You are very welcome and we are delighted that you're here for us to help!
     
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  7. Elena_Newbie

    Elena_Newbie Member

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    Just to share, If the customer requires for it then you have to conduct the LPA for that specific production line. We do QPA for the Manufacturing process audit.
     
  8. johnnymo77

    johnnymo77 Member

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    Like Chrysler...
     

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  9. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    QPA?
     
  10. Elena_Newbie

    Elena_Newbie Member

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    QPA is Quality Process Audit, it's our division quality requirement in conducting a manufacturing process audit deployed to our sector It contains a list of questions for the 4Ms, our reference documents are PFMEA and Control Plans.
     
  11. Teresa Nix

    Teresa Nix Member

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    I have a question. I am disagreeing with a senior management person over the need to conduct audits for each customer whose product is manufactured on the same assembly line. Example, line 1 produces product for both Ford and FCA. The management person says an audit on line 1 is all that is needed, not an audit for each customer on line 1. I thoroughly disagree. The MP is calling the LINE a process. Yet I can find nothing that supports my claim that the process is different for different products, not just manufacturing lines. In one case, if we choose to audit just one product on a particular line, we have a customer that will not get audited at all, as that is the only line it is run on. I would like something as evidence to back me up, or back up the MP, whichever is correct. Does anyone know where I can get that backup? Thanks.
     
  12. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

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    Is it the same product coming off the line?
     
  13. Teresa Nix

    Teresa Nix Member

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    No, the products are different for each customer.
     
  14. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

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    So here is what we do. As a stamper, we don't have dedicated lines, but each part has it's own tooling that runs in a particular press. If we had to audit each tool it would be unduly burdensome. So we audit one or two parts per customer. While each part and each tool is different, they basically go thru the same process. Hasn't been a problem for us.
     
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  15. Teresa Nix

    Teresa Nix Member

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    That is my problem. We run different parts for different customers on the same line. I'm being told that auditing ONE product for ONE customer on that line is sufficient. I do not agree. If three customers have parts that are produced on that same line, all three customer's parts/processes must be audited, NOT just one audit for the manufacturing line itself.
     
  16. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

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    I think a lot would depend on the differences between the parts. If it is essentially the same part and process, then I would say one is enough as I could show applicability between the parts/customers. If the parts and process are different, then each should be audited.
     
  17. Joseph Stephen

    Joseph Stephen New Member

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    9.2.2.3 Manufacturing process audit
    In mentioned IATF clause, it is stated that audit all manufacturing processes over each three-year calendar period. Also within each individual audit plan, each manufacturing processes shall be audited on all shifts where it occurs.
    My question is while auditing a process according to plan, do we have to cover all 3 shifts in the same planned day or week? Or else can we audit each shift in different audit plan of a process given that it is covered in 3-year calendar period?
     
  18. Gaby Leon

    Gaby Leon New Member

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    Hello All

    Someone has an example about audit with shift handover?

    9.2.2.3 Manufacturing process audit
    Within each individual audit plan, each manufacturing process shall be audited on all shifts where it occurs, including the appropriate sampling of the shift handover.
     
  19. morteza

    morteza Member

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    Hi Victoria,
    In 2005, AIAG in CQI-8 (layered process audit) mentioned that:
    upload_2018-4-23_23-40-48.png

    Fortunately, this paragraph has been removed in 2nd edition (2014).
     
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