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How to treat the ineffectiveness of actions to address risks

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by Leonid, Aug 11, 2018.

  1. Leonid

    Leonid Active Member

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    Actions taken to address risks proved to have been ineffective (9.1.3) and risk events occurred. The ineffectiveness of these actions is a nonconformity. Shall 10.2 be used here?
     
  2. judegu

    judegu Active Member

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    I don`t think that it is a nonconformity when the actions to adrresee risks are proved to be ineffective. This reject criterion may be a little strict. As long as we identify it in time and dealt with it, it would be ok in my opinion. This is just my personal opinion from a layman`s perspective. Looking forwards to other insights from the real professionals.:)
     
  3. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    Good day @Leonid;
    The answer (as is so often the case is ...)"it depends".

    Remember, as defined in clause 1- "Scope" of ISO 9001:2015, the standard applies to..."...products and services that meet customer and applicable statutory and regulatory requirements" ,...."...enhance customer satisfaction..."

    If the failed "actions taken to prevent risks" caused a failure within the scope (intention/inclusions) of the ISO 9001:2015 standard, then yes, 10.2 (i.e. corrective action) would be expected. If, however, the actions to address risk (which failed) did not result in an impact within the scope (intention/inclusions) of the standard, then it is within the organization to determine.

    Example:
    * For example, let's say that a "risk" was identified within operating costs that could fail to meet expectations of interested parties (i.e. owners).
    * In this example let's state that the goal was to implement new lighting, which would reduce electricity costs by 3% per year. Now let's assume that the new lighting was installed, but the
    savings result was only 1% per year.
    Unless this "ineffective" action caused a negative impact to customer satisfaction (e.g. not able to apply requested cost downs to customer) or ability to meet customer requirements (e.g. allowed cash flow problems to prevent insufficient inventory resulting in missed shipments, etc..), then this is not a nonconformity as specific to the 1-Scope of ISO 9001:2015. Whether or not a corrective action is applied, is, therefore, discretionary to the organization.
    [IF, however, customer shipments were impacted or customer satisfaction was decreased as a result, then corrective action would be expected.]

    Hope this helps.
    Be well.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
    judegu likes this.
  4. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

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    How you going to correct that. Get new lights, again?
     
  5. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    The word effectiveness is defined as the “extent to which planned activities are realized and planned results are achieved”. If “planned activities and planned results” are equivalent to “requirements”, then failure in fulfilling these “planned activities/results” will result to nonconformities (as per definition). Then once nonconformities occur, clause 10.2 should be applied (i.e. “When a nonconformity occur...”).
     
    Truong Vu Huy and judegu like this.

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