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From 3 certificate of 9001, 14001, and 18001 into a IMS

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2008 - Quality Management Systems' started by wywy2020, Sep 23, 2015.

  1. wywy2020

    wywy2020 Member

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    anyone have a experience af IMS a system which consist of 9001, 14001 and OHSAS 18001?
    my company is having individual certificate currently and the management is eager for IMS for cost saving purpose. What is the requirement to intergrated it?
     
  2. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    What cost savings? Do you have separate visits for all certificates?

    If you think you can save costs on reduced audit time, you might want to check, before you start wondering too much about IMS. Internal cost savings MAY be possible - internal audits for example - but I rather doubt you'd be able to actually show any savings, unless you have really good cost controls in place.

    On the certification side, there's some reductions given for an IMS, if you have the audits done at the same time you'd save something on travel, but the actual duration of the audits isn't likely to change very much, in my experience. Why not ask your CB representative first?
     
  3. MCW8888

    MCW8888 Well-Known Member

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    May company has an integrated TS16949 and ISO14001 system. There are common elements between these standards.
     
  4. Sara Nova

    Sara Nova Member

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    Lots of company have an integrated ISO 9001, 14001 and OHSAS 18000 system. Don't think it results in cost savings though - the auditors still show up at the same frequency :) And you still have separate certs.
     
    Claes Gefvenberg likes this.
  5. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

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    From my experience, there were little - if any - IMS cost savings from an external perspective. Internally, however, the tangible costs (financial, people, time) were abundant.

    • Time on internal audits
    • One document control system
    • One NC/CAPA system
    • One large management review (with separated smaller ones over the course of the year)
    • Reduced training

    With regard to the intangible costs:
    • Common culture - it's not quality or environment tor safety, it's simply what we do
    • Common direction
    • Common language - CA is CA, identifying an applicable standard is rather non-value-add
    • Happier workforce
    • Auditors cite you as a benchmark (hopefully) and they're happier because they start to see commonalities within the system - if it's working for one standard, odds are it's working for another - and then they ask you to speak about your IMS (or an element of it) at an upcoming ASQ meeting...or maybe that's only happened to me. *lol*
     
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  6. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

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    But we did not have one certificate with all three standards on it. We wanted to go for something like that, but our Registrar did not offer it.
     
  7. wywy2020

    wywy2020 Member

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    Noticed a company with 9001, 14001 and 18001 in a single certificate recently. will that mean that surveillance and renewal will be done at for 3 at 1 time? if yes then that will save in terms of audit man days.
     
  8. wywy2020

    wywy2020 Member

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    oh, u mean we are unable to combine the 3rd party certification body surveillance audit and renewal audit so that it cover the QMS, EMS and OHSAS at one go?
    by the way, what have you managed to intergrate?
    - Manual
    - Policy
    - Objective
    - internal audit
    - management review
    - CAPA system
     
  9. wywy2020

    wywy2020 Member

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    Ya. will definitely talk to CB but at first would like to get some info on the pros and cons of IMS from the forumer here.
     
  10. Sandra T

    Sandra T Member

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    We have had an integrated system for 9001, 14001, 18001 & 27001 for some time now. We have one CB that audits the first 3 and another that audits 27001.
    However, all have a commonality in policies, procedures, internal audits, training, communication, CA etc................
    The CB for 9001, 14001 & 18001 audits all 3 in one audit at all 8 sites. We still have seperate certifications though and we are happy with this.
    Now 9001, 14001 and 27001(in 2014) have been updated, all aligned for integration, but we had the foresight to integrate them a few years ago as it just seemed right.
    I can't say there has been any cost savings for us though.
     
    Atul Khandekar likes this.
  11. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    It CAN be, but it's going to depend on a number of factors: does your CB actually have an auditor who has competencies in all disciplines? In my experience, the competencies are frequently ISO 9001, and then ISO 14001/OSHAS 18001, rarely all 3 in one person. Doing the audits at the same time don't automatically mean saving audit days - there are rules governing this - take a look at the IAF's MD 5 document etc. www.iaf.nu and the "publications" and then "mandatory documents".
     
  12. Claes Gefvenberg

    Claes Gefvenberg Moderator Staff Member

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    My 2 Cents, based on the previous comments: We run an integrated system, based on ISO 9001, 14001, 50001, and OHSAS 18001. Roxane described the benefits so well that there is little reason for me to elaborate further, but they are substantial.

    The common structure (Annex SL) in the new issues of ISO 9001 & 14001 will make integration easier than before and ISO 45001, which is set to replace OHSAS 18001 in 2015 will improve things further.
    As for both internal and external audits, they are integrated as well. We have one certificate for each std, though.
     
  13. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

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    At the time, we were unable to combine the three systems into one audit - it simply was not offered by our Registrar. I'm no longer with that organization and I do not know what they have done since.

    But yes, we integrated everything you listed...we created our Business Management System (BMS) to address applicable standards as well as the requirements set forth by our parent company.
     
  14. wywy2020

    wywy2020 Member

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    Ya. just wonder if there is any Registrar that allowed / managed to do all these at once. I mean for certification and also the following surveillance.
     
  15. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    A registrar is "allowed" to do audit of all three management systems at the same time. Why wouldn't they be? It might mean having 3 auditors with different competencies, of course. Would you want that? If you are thinking that one audit, done by one auditor, against all 3 requirements, then this is less likely because it's highly unlikely that there's many auditors who possess competencies in all 3 disciplines. The duration of the audit isn't going to be much less either.

    What is your interest? Is it reduction of costs of travel etc?
     
  16. MCW8888

    MCW8888 Well-Known Member

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    The IMS
    Having an IMS reduced CB auditor travel cost. We conduct a combination TS16949/ISO14001 Intrnal Audits, and Management Review. It eliminates the redundancy of documentation. There are very few auditors that can audit both.
     
  17. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    And even fewer who have all three competencies...
     
  18. Wing Lam

    Wing Lam New Member

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    I am new to quality but my previous firm has a combination of the ISO 9001, 14001, 18001, 27001.
    Whether you will have a combined certificate or separate one, you may discuss with your CB.
    Having an IMS compared with separate certificates, have some advantages and disadvantages.
    Advantages: having a more comprehensive system, a single management system ( same set of QM , COPs )
    Disadvantages : certificates are bonded together, a more complicated QMS to start with and maintain
    The good news are that the latest version are easier to combined as an IMS.
    And you may also find some IMS consulting firm to see their opinion and quotation.
     

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