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Do you have to apply IATF 16949 to non-automotive jobs in your company?

Discussion in 'IATF 16949:2016 - Automotive Quality Systems' started by pnewinks, Jul 30, 2019.

  1. pnewinks

    pnewinks New Member

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    Hi, we are currently holders of ISO 9001, 14001 and BS 18001.
    Our current automotive business accounts for 30% of our company and we are being pushed to get IATF 16949 by some of our customers.
    Would we have to apply 16949 to all jobs in our business?
     
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  2. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Welcome!

    Firstly, there's a document (generally) called the "Rules" which defines what's got to be within the IATF 16949 certification. It states that only manufacturing sites where production, service parts...that shall be mechanically attached or electrically connected to the vehicle are manufactured. So you wouldn't apply IATF requirements to non-automotive products processes in your business.

    By the same token, if by "jobs" you mean automotive business, you are NOT encouraged to "ring fence" which is applying the IATF 16949 requirements to ONLY automotive products for customers requiring IATF certification. Some CBs will not permit this. If it's automotive product, the IATF 16949 requirements apply.

    Does that answer your question? If not, let me know.
     
  3. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

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    No you would not. So your entire shop would use the ISO requirements. Your automotive products would be subject to IATF requirements. The biggest difference would be things like PPAP and Core Tools often required by customer specific requirements. You will also have some "blended" areas like metrics/monitoring, supplier selection and evaluation, preventive maintenance, etc. which you will need to determine if you want to apply company wide or just to automotive specific areas. That can be very tricky and sometimes it's just easier to apply the requirements company wide. Now here's where you'll get pinched. The CB will set the audit time based on your entire employment (provided you can't segregate them somehow). If auto is only 30%, you have a lot of "down time" because there isn't enough for the IATF auditor to do. Good luck.
     
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  4. pnewinks

    pnewinks New Member

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    Hi yes it does I guess what you are saying is, you should apply IATF 16949 elements to all automotive jobs even if your customer has not requested this. I have been on the VDA.6.3 product safety rep course and they insist the same. We are asking our customers to identify all automotive jobs at request for quotations stage. If a customer failed or refused to reveal the final application of a product, where would we stand from an auditors point of view?
     
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  5. pnewinks

    pnewinks New Member

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    Hi thanks for the reply, that's what I thought might be the case but it's great to hear it confirmed.
     
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  6. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

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    Under the new IATF rules, the standard is applicable to all automotive parts whether your customer requests or not. If you don't know the end use, then it won't be a problem -- leave it out.
     
  7. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    It's not really a case of the auditors point of view - it's up to you to be very clear what does/doesn't apply to what. When you are confident you have things right, simply (and confidently) demonstrate that. Of course, your documentation will help that story too. Don't let the auditor throw a curved ball by disagreeing because of their opinion.
     
  8. Travis Dutiel

    Travis Dutiel New Member

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    I would like to expand on this question a little bit more, as this is something we are looking into as well.

    What is considered "automotive"? Does a semi trailer count as automotive? How about the Semi Truck? How about travel trailers or RVs?

    If we have only one item number we make that a customer requires us to have IATF for (assuming we have no other automotive products at all), does IATF only apply to that specific item number, or to the processes or lines used to manufacture it?

    Also, if the item we have that a customer is requiring IATF for is not automotive, and we have no other automotive products, can we still apply IATF?
     
  9. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

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    My understanding is "automotive" means on the road. So trucks, trailers, RVs and the like would all apply. Off road tractors, ATVs and such would not. We have customers who make systems for both on and off road, so it can get rather complicated. Auditors can only look at "automotive" products, so at some point they have to be on road.

    If you're only making one automotive part for a customer, I would think long and hard about adopting IATF. In that situation, IATF really sucks. There are other alternatives that can keep customers happy. Good luck.
     
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  10. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    You'd have to consider if the customer is a "subscriber". IIRC the rules define that. Let me check next week. I don't believe that the automotive products you've defined are, with the exception of the truck - Freightliner are a subscriber, I believe (as part of FCA?).

    If you make one automotive part then it's the process which result in that being created and shipped - from RFQ thru APQP, manufacture to pack and ship.
     
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  11. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    To confuse us further, here's the statement, in verbatim, from the Rules for Achieving and Maintaining IATF Recognition 5th Ed., page 6:

    "Automotive" shall be understood to include the following: Passenger Cars, Light Commercial Vehicles, Heavy Trucks, Buses, Motorcycles, and to exclude the following: Industrial, Agricultural, Off-Highway (Mining, Forestry, Construction, etc.). Aftermarket parts are excluded. Specialty cars (i.e. race cars, dump truck, cab-trailer combo, semi-trailers, cash carrying van, ambulances, recreational vehicles, etc.) are excluded unless it is "up fitted" by an IATF OEM. The suppliers for those parts become an integral part of these vehicles and are eligible for certification.
     
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