Design Responsible or Not?

Morning all,

Quite simply, I have an ex IATF auditor telling me we are Design Responsible and need to implement all of Clause 8, I have another Automotive Consultant telling me we are not design responsible and can put in an exemption, our potential auditing body is on the fence until they come to site and charge us for the answer. This is causing a lot of confusion as there is quite a mountain of APQP we need to climb if we are responsible.

1) We are an SME and do not design cars. We do not own any patents or are not named on any BoMs in any OEMs. We do not supply directly into OEMs (hence the need for IATF).

2) We do have 'components' on cars on the road right now, which are supplied to Tier 1's who supply OEMs.

3) We do provide advice on how a 'component' could function, e.g adding finger lifts to an adhesive part or quick peel liners on some NVH ect.. but we do not in any way actually 'design' the end vehicle.

4) We do sometimes get given a straight drawing and 'go make it' instructions. "make to print"

5) We do also get given a moulding and asked to come up with something that will 'fit inside' or 'around' or 'on' an interface. We will then draw up this 'component' and submit for approval. It may or may not be on a company drawing or the Tier 2's drawing.

Hope that all makes sense, does anyone have any experience around this?

 

Good day @Charles Stanley-Grey and welcome to the site....

Please help us understand a little better...
1- We do not supply directly into OEMs (hence the need for IATF)
Do you believe those who DO supply directly into OEM do not need IATF certification?

2- We do sometimes get given a straight drawing and 'go make it' instructions. "make to print"
IF this is the ONLY method regarding how you receive your product designs (i.e. build to print), then you are indeed not design responsible.

3- but we do not in any way actually 'design' the end vehicle.
Design responsible is not directed only at the designers of the "end vehicle". It includes the design of automotive products (components).

The question I have is, who is the designer of the products you are manufacturing?
a) If the OEM and/or your customer designs, and simply passes the requirement to your organization: Not design responsible.
b) If your organization designs the product and that design is then approved by/adopted by your customer: Design responsible.

Hope this helps.
Be well.

 

I have always been of the school of thought that if you didn't create the drawing for the end product, you were not design responsible. Based on your explanation, it sounds like you make the product based on the drawing you're provided. Whoever created that drawing is design responsible.

 

5) We do also get given a moulding and asked to come up with something that will 'fit inside' or 'around' or 'on' an interface. We will then draw up this 'component' and submit for approval. It may or may not be on a company drawing or the Tier 2's drawing.

In my opinion, this DOES make you design responsible. You are being given a set of parameters, and are asked to design something that will fit 'inside or around or on'.

No way to get around it........

 

Morning all,

Really interesting feedback, as you can see it does not feel clean cut on some bits, but it does not put us solidly in design responsible so my gut is to keep out of it, if during the stage 1 it is picked up then we can adapt.

In direct answer, we are able to submit to the customer an engineering change if we for example could not get hold of the material anymore or if we wanted to make a tweak/change to the design. However, the very fact we have to ask the customer for this and they have every ability to say "no make it like it is" says to me, we are not design responsible, though we have design input.

 

Charles: The restrictions and limitations which you work under don't affect the fact that you design the component. Any design-responsible company works under the same strictures and limitations - they are given a set of parameters to meet by the customer, and they design (and manufacture) to fill these requirements.

If they (the manufacturer) want to later CHANGE something in this design (material, manufacturing method, whatever) they apply to the customer to authorizze the change, however it doesn't have any impact on the original responsibility for the design.