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Combining QMS Audit with Manufacturing Audit

Discussion in 'IATF 16949:2016 - Automotive Quality Systems' started by Josepi, Dec 12, 2017.

  1. Josepi

    Josepi New Member

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    Has anyone combined their Quality Management Systems audits with their Manufacturing audits? Is this just my interpretation that you can? As long as you show a process approach (sketch out a turtle diagram or follow a process flow), couldn't you design and plan your audits to cover both? We manufacture iron castings by the way. So, I would imagine that manufacturing audits would not apply to some of our office or support functions.
     
  2. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    You can, but may I ask "Why?" Manufacturing process audits usually use the Control plan as the audit criteria. A Quality Management Systems internal audit (can) use much more to audit...
     
  3. Josepi

    Josepi New Member

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    I like the approach of using a control plan to audit. We have a Key Process Matrix for each process area which not only lists out each of the key smaller process areas of a larger manufacturing process (i.e. finishing) but it shows interaction with the Turtle diagram, Flow chart, process FMEA, and Control Plan. I might simply use the key process matrix for manufacturing audits. Perhaps we will do the Manufacturing audits on the same day as our QMS audits. Just turn your hat around and your a Manufacturing auditor.

    upload_2017-12-13_14-16-42.png
     
  4. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    But it's NOT a QMS audit because you are missing a ton of process which support the manufacturing process... Can I ask if you've had QMS auditor training?
     
  5. Josepi

    Josepi New Member

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    The above example of a key process matrix is only one consideration for how we will perform our manufacturing audits (control plans included). It is NOT an example of our QMS audits. Our QMS audits are quite established. They cover support processes as well as manufacturing processes.
     
  6. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

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    Why not try layered audits? There is one layer for the QMS, with a higher system/process perspective. Then there is one for the details of the work instructions and manufacturing processes. We took this approach in a steel company, with the manufacturing audits done by the supervisors and routine facilitators. Part of the QMS audit was to then review that level of auditing, the results, and actions taken by manufacturing on those results.
     
  7. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    And we were getting along so well until now, RB...:D
     
  8. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

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    Ahhh...the honeymoon is over.

    There was no way I could audit every single documented process at our location. The supervisors/facilitators were not auditing their own work, and they had an audit process to following (plan, documentation, results, actioning things, etc.). I audited their ability to ensure our documented routine activities were best practice and achieving desired results. I audited their audit process...plus document control, blah blah blah.

    This allowed me to focus on QMS processes and their adoption/conformance within the organization. Think of it in medical terms. I was a general practitioner and looked at the overall health. They were specialists and focused on one particular area.

    I would look at the entire Rolling Mill process, while they assessed the detailed, cell-specific task documentation.
     
  9. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    OK, so let's have a teleconference... Bring gin.
     
  10. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

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    Maybe later this week. Covering for my boss during business hours and working on homework assignment outside of business hours. Do I know how to have fun or what? :cool:
     
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