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Balanced scorecard/ISO widely used in industry?

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2008 - Quality Management Systems' started by Qualmx, Dec 15, 2015.

  1. Qualmx

    Qualmx Well-Known Member

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    Hi all

    I have a question, hope you can help me.

    At implementing ISO in several companies, I always have defined KPI based in what is
    requested by the ISO Clauses.

    Recently, I have seen the need to include other KPI's focused on Finance,and I remember that BSC methodology considered this issue and others.

    In your experience, currently how aligned/involved are BSC with ISO in the companies when defining strategies and KPI's?

    Is it very useful?, is it worth the effort to add it to an ISO system?

    Thanks in advance for your responses
     
  2. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

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    Qualmx, I'm not sure what you mean by defining metrics "based in what is requested by the ISO Clauses". I understand what you are saying, but I don't understand why you take this approach. Does ISO actually require specific metrics? :)

    Where have you seen this need to include metrics focusing on Finance?

    If I may be so bold, I would suggest that when you read QUALITY Management System, you should replace that first word with BUSINESS. When you get down to basics, ISO 9001 is really about having the ability to provide the Customer with what they want, when they want it - specs, price, time, functionality, etc. In order to do this, a BUSINESS should consider the organizational needs beyond production and the "quality department". This could include considering things like:

    • Being able to pay employees
    • Contingency plans in case of natural disasters and/or emergencies
    • Back-up of information technology (i.e., data, software, e-records, etc.)
    • ...and so on...

    Essentially, if the company isn't operational (in every sense), this may adversely impact the ability to meet the Customer's needs.

    Why add a BSC to an ISO system? Instead, why not integrate ISO within a business culture that includes information-based decision making?
     
  3. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    I am similarly confused. A balanced score card is one way of meeting the need for quality objectives of a QMS compliant with ISO 9001, and nothing much more, IMHO. I'm not sure a BSC HAS a "methodology".
     
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  4. Qualmx

    Qualmx Well-Known Member

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    Thanks RoxaneB

    I'm agree with you, is it good to have aside a business culture, but I have seen that is it possible to add to an ISO system other processes, e.g. Improvement projects which include Strategic plans, also the Finance process, etc.

    When including to the ISO system (Finance, which is not required by ISO), and
    defining KPI's for such process, in this way we try to comply with ISO plus those extra processes.

    BSC takes into consideration other kind of KPI's in addition to just Quality.

    Regards
     
  5. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    I believe all the processes (core, management and support) are critical in an organization's management system. Finance may not be one of the core processes but without it an organization may go bankrupt and cease to operate. Objectives/targets for Finance should be established not because ISO 9001 requires them but because the organization needs them.

    Roxanne has a great point in equating QUALITY with BUSINESS. So if we are thinking of establishing "quality objectives" on Finance, we should mean "business objectives". This would make more sense to an organization.
     
    Qualmx likes this.
  6. James

    James Active Member

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    Are you coming from a company trying to implement something or are you auditing someone? The organization is able to define its own metrics, not the standard.
     
  7. MCW8888

    MCW8888 Well-Known Member

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    BSC is an OEM supplier score card.
     
  8. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm not sure that's a universal truth. I know organizations who do it because it's an effective management tool, not because a customer requires it.
     
  9. Qualmx

    Qualmx Well-Known Member

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    Dear James
    I'm supporting a small company in ISO implementation and I perceive that I can use ISO system
    to implement also Bussines KPI's and having only one Management system instead to manage them separately.
    Bussines + Quality.

    Regards
     
  10. MCW8888

    MCW8888 Well-Known Member

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    That's true. But we do not call it BSC.
     
  11. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

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    Semantics.

    I don't call internal audits "internal audits" where I work because the current culture associates the word 'audit' as scary and punitive. We use the word "assessment" because it sounds more friendly and approachable. But the overall intent, approach, format, etc., is the same...audit or assessment, same thing where I work.

    BSC - Metrics/Objectives Matrix - Planning and Strategy Matrix - That Place Where We Put Data and See How We're Doing ... Essentially, we're all speaking the same term and have the same intentions with it in this current thread.

    Let's try to stay on topic for the sake of the Qualmx, the original poster.
     
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  12. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

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    I applaud your idea to have one system. Many of us here have taken similar approaches with our organizations.

    However, it really isn't Business + Quality.

    How about viewing the formula as:

    Business = Quality + Environment + Safety + .... other standards or accepted industry practices (including Finance)

    At my previous organization, we developed a Business Management System. It included the requirements for:

    • ISO 9001
    • ISO 14001
    • OHSAS 18001
    • ISRS (also safety)
    • Sarbanes-Oxley
    • GBS (these were internal organizational requirements promoting global standardization and a global organizational culture)

    How did we do this?

    Simply put, we defined who we were...what we did...why we did it...and then we made all of those standards listed above, fit us. We did not change who we were to meet them. If there were gaps, however, we developed processes to address those opportunities.

    It sounds like the organization you are currently at has the beginnings of a management system that could conform to the requirements of ISO 9001. Awesome! :) How it decides to identify, review and action (if required) key metrics...that should be a decision based on what the organization needs, not ISO.
     
  13. Qualmx

    Qualmx Well-Known Member

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    Thanks RoxaneB

    I'm totally agree with you.

    In fact our system is named, "Management System" which includes 9001,14000 and in the future maybe 18000 and some others.

    At the start we didn't want to name it "Quality Management System" so that people don't associate the system just with Quality.

    Regards
     

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