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Audit schedules - Why are people still asking about this myth?

Discussion in 'ISO 19011 - Auditing Management Systems Guidelines' started by Andy Nichols, Jan 12, 2022.

  1. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    In the 21st Century and, after so many years of "ISO", why is it people are STILL confused about when to perform internal audits? I frequently read questions from hapless audit program managers (or similar) about "audit schedules" and "audit frequency" or how many times audits should be done in any given period.

    Nothing, except biased CB auditors, requires audits to be calendared in any way - the only allusion to any time period is IATF 16949 and that's another discussion entirely.

    I wrote this blog article to assist in understanding: https://www.the-center.org/Blog/May-2019/No-Time-for-ISO-9001
     
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  2. RonR Quality Pro

    RonR Quality Pro Active Member

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    Nice article, Andy. I don't agree with some of the interpretations you have made, however there is nothing that I can point to and say 'NO, thats WRONG'. definitely gives some guidance and advice to the new audit managers who don't really know WHO to ask.
     
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  3. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't have enough fingers and toes to count the times I have corrected misconceptions about scheduling. As Lead Auditor of a TS16949 registered company I pointed out the lack of a shall when asked why XYZ processes were scheduled at 5-year intervals. The auditor ended up suggesting in an OFI that the intervals coincide with the registration cycle (3 years). We went ahead and did that.

    That being said, the standards these days are not asking for set frequencies. We are asked to "plan audits" based on process performance,results of previous audits etc. (risk based thinking). That means the audit plan is a living document.That's very challenging for people who are managing the Internal Audit process as a burdensome collateral duty. They are less inclined to explore in-depth the standard's expectations, and they lack the imagination to develop a truly value-added program.

    This is intended to use the Internal Audit process as a means to understand the Management System's effectiveness (that's actual verbiage in most of the standards). I have too often instead seen the process as a box-checking activity that satisfies an ISO requirement. That's a shame.
     
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  4. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Many thanks, Ron. I really appreciate you taking the time to read and comment.
     
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  5. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Isn't it just?
     
  6. Sakshi Verma

    Sakshi Verma New Member

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    I like this article, nicely explained the ISO compliant QMS.

    It will help the organizations to schedule the audit programs as per ISO standards.

    Keep sharing such valuable information!
     
  7. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    Excellent article @Andy Nichols (and of course, I applaud anything that finds a way to incorporate some "floyd" wisdom!!)

    I will re-share your article via my linkedin network if I may...

    Be well.
     
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  8. QueenOfQuality

    QueenOfQuality Member

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    I suppose it depends on the standard you are following - a lot of us are juggling standards. I have to ensure compliance with Jacie, HTA, MHRA, CQC, BSQR, 9001, 13485, 15189, 17025. 15189 states all 15 standards have to be audited, Jacie only has 8, others have different requirements. It's basically a juggling act for me to ensure all audits cover all requirements of all standards, within the varying timeframes. It is good practice to ensure your own audit calendar is less than that of your surveilance visits - for example 15189 is a 3 year cycle with 2 surveilance visits so you have to audit annually or you will struggle to show compliance.