Dismiss Notice
You must be a registered member in order to post messages and view/download attached files in this forum.
Click here to register.

9001 Lead auditor training

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by MRH_2019, May 14, 2019.

  1. MRH_2019

    MRH_2019 Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2019
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Hi All,

    I am being asked by my company to complete a Lead Auditor Certification. I am located in California. Does anyone have a suggestion on course I can take to complete this certification? I am not sure what things I should look for in a course. When I search online, it seems like there are a lot of options out there.
     
  2. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    3,040
    Likes Received:
    1,553
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    Lots of things, but before that can I ask "why?" Are you going to become a "lead auditor"? Are you going to do supplier audits and lead a team of (1 minimum) auditors? If the answers are "No", you can get everything you need in just a 3 day Internal Auditor course, save money and time and confusion in the process!

    Unless you intend becoming a Lead Auditor, then why get the training?

    If you are "voluntold" to do this training (and management want to throw money away), then look for an accredited course, like an Exemplar Global approved course, or IRCA and use a non-Registrar provider. They mainly teach auditing from the CB auditors' perspectives and that's not suitable for internal auditors. Try Oriel Stat-a-Matrix, for example.
     
  3. KyleG

    KyleG Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2018
    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    67
    Trophy Points:
    17
    Location:
    Reno Nevada
    I too am Looking to get some sort of certifications, (for sake of having the piece of paper, also want the training) thank you for the question MRH and information Andy!!
     
    Andy Nichols likes this.
  4. MRH_2019

    MRH_2019 Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2019
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Hi All,

    I and a coworker are already designated as lead auditors for our facility but they would like us to get the true certification to prove competency.
     
  5. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    3,040
    Likes Received:
    1,553
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    It doesn't do that, sadly. All it shows is you attended a course, and passed and exam. Competency comes from experience, lots of experience. If your auditor qualification states that, your organization need to rethink that. Trust me - I have created and run (including IRCA/RABQSA accredited) lead auditor courses for well over 2 decades.
     
  6. MRH_2019

    MRH_2019 Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2019
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    2
    I totally agree. We both are aware of this. However, they still want us to have "paper". Competency is about knowledge and not about certificates. I have known many who have no certificates but can "run circles" around auditors with their competency in ISO.
     
  7. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    826
    Likes Received:
    591
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Location:
    USA
    I took a good accredited Lead Auditor class from Bureau Veritas. I agree with Andy that a lot of Internal Auditors won't require the extent of training in Lead Auditor courses, but I would think it is worthwhile for those who manage the organization's audit program. This would include the certification process and dealing with third party auditors and registrars.
     
    Martin.suda likes this.
  8. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    3,040
    Likes Received:
    1,553
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    Can I ask why, Jen?
     
  9. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    826
    Likes Received:
    591
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Location:
    USA
    As I said:
    That was the case for me when I was an Internal Auditor.
     
  10. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    826
    Likes Received:
    591
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Location:
    USA
    I would like you to please elaborate why you think getting the LA training would put one on an even playing field with CB auditors. What does "even playing field" mean?
     
    Andy Nichols likes this.
  11. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    3,040
    Likes Received:
    1,553
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    Non-sense. Attending a course is not the same as being an Exemplar Global or IRCA qualified auditor.
     
  12. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2015
    Messages:
    1,015
    Likes Received:
    759
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    Laguna Philippines
    There are times I notice this when I observe CB audits. Acting like they know more of the processes, products and services than the auditees/process owners who have been there for 15 years and up.
     
    etorresg and Andy Nichols like this.
  13. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    826
    Likes Received:
    591
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Location:
    USA
    That's what I thought you meant. Look at the advertisements for CB auditors, however, and you will likely see expectations for more than passing a 5-day class.
     
  14. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    826
    Likes Received:
    591
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Location:
    USA
    This is a concise statement that is true. We all would have benefited if your message had been this clear earlier.
     
  15. MRH_2019

    MRH_2019 Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2019
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Hi All,

    Sorry for the late reply. Been out sick for a week.

    Basically, my company just wants the certificate for proof of competency. They like to show certifications in my field rather than just competency based on knowledge. I know that seems silly, but that is what they want.
     
  16. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    3,040
    Likes Received:
    1,553
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    You can get that from an internal auditor course, too!
     
  17. etorresg

    etorresg New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2016
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Maybe the Certificate Quality Auditor from the American Society for Quality (ASQ) is what you are looking for
     
    Andy Nichols likes this.
  18. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    826
    Likes Received:
    591
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Location:
    USA
    I think the CQA is very nice, but it did not by itself prepare me to be a lead auditor in my organization.
     
  19. etorresg

    etorresg New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2016
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    2
    I agree with you, training, dedication, and research are also necessary
     
  20. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    3,040
    Likes Received:
    1,553
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    It would be helpful to frame the context of a reply with details of the job and size of company. For example, as a corporate Quality person in a large (Fortune 500 type) company being a Lead Auditor would be useful, if you were responsible for and performing QMS audits across a number of sites. Of course, if you are working for a Certification Body, it's a requirement, usually. For a significant majority, sitting in a 5 day course doesn't teach them anything more than a 3 day internal auditor course, in my experience...
     
    Daniel Padilla T likes this.

Share This Page