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5.1 Leadership and Commitment

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by The PPAP Assassin, Nov 20, 2017.

  1. The PPAP Assassin

    The PPAP Assassin Active Member

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    Hi everyone,

    I would like to start a conversion on this clause and it's requirements.

    How do you classify "top management"?

    How do you plan on meeting these requirements?

    How do you collect the objective evidence to show you are meeting these requirements?

    - This is one clause that constantly has me scratching my head. Should I sit down with the president or owner of my company to inform them these are requirements that he or she will be held to? How should I enforce this?

    Thanks for your input!
     
  2. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

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    A lot will depend on how your company is structured. How big? Is the Pres/Owner even involved? Any formal strategic plan or is it all in his head?

    If he is not all that inclined to be intimately involved, then figure out who you "top managers" are and work thru them. Do the planning/swot stuff, management reviews, etc. as a team. You'll be somewhat limited as to what you can do. It's an uphill battle.

    If he is involved, then you've basically have management review to help "police" the requirements. But try to keep it as simple as possible. Good luck.
     
  3. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Who gets measured on the performance of the business? The owner may have expectations of some kind of performance, but the Pres may set objectives, or the Pres and the Process Owners may collectively set objectives of some kind. The are the leadership.
     
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  4. The PPAP Assassin

    The PPAP Assassin Active Member

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    The president, VP of operations and VP of finance and administration gets measured on performance by the owners ususally in the form of an impromptu business meeting.. Last one was on a resort in Mexico.. in which I was not invited
     
  5. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

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    Further to Andy's point, leadership is setting those (we hope) meaningful and value-added objectives, and ensuring that the resources (e.g., human, financial, technological, etc.) are provided so that those objectives can be achieved. Committment is that check (and act) of the process results related to those objectives - if results aren't being achieved, there are actions taken to get things back on track (i.e., additional/different resources are provided, goals potentially revised, etc.). This can take the form of management review - which doesn't necessarily need to be in the form of one big annual meeting; there are various ways to complete management review.
     
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  6. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

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    Then you need to find the clause in the standard which requires them to invite you. :)
     
  7. The PPAP Assassin

    The PPAP Assassin Active Member

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    So can I take it that all of those in the management reviews I hold can be put under the label "top management"?

    This would shine a new light on this requirement for me, as I was a bit nervous in thinking of coming to the president with all of these requests.

    Thanks!
     
  8. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

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    Are they top management in name only? Do they have the authority (and autonomy) to make decisions and implement actions without his official 'okay' on everything?

    If nothing can be done without his signed approval, then I'd dub him as (part of) top management.

    At one point, an organization I worked for was like that. We had our top management (typically department heads) and our president. They were all part of top management and the president was subject to audits - both internal and external. Granted, internal audits with him were more about organizational strategy and communication, wanting to understand how his vision for the organization was communicated down (and how results were communicated back up).
     
  9. The PPAP Assassin

    The PPAP Assassin Active Member

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    Yes they do in some ways. VP of operations is more of the leader of the company, and VP of finance and administrations is the police in her department. President does not require approval on all decisions.

    I was told once by a registrar that "top management" is the top in command.. The president, CEO or owner.

    Lumping all of the management team together as "top management" makes more sense to me, and really clears up my previous concerns.
     
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  10. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

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    So here's the thing. Make it as simple as possible. We are a small company. We originally started out with "top" management as all of my department heads - like 3 or 4 people, plus the President. But that tended to make things more laborious than they had to be. I finally changed it to top management is the President. So while the department heads are included in a lot of things, we only require the President to participate as the top dog. Makes it much more efficient and effective -- don't have to herd the cats. Now this is a company where the Pres. is/was the management rep. and wrote the system -- so he is intimately involved. It won't really work if you have more of a hands off guy.
     
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  11. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah, what do they know?
     
  12. The PPAP Assassin

    The PPAP Assassin Active Member

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    Our president is really a hands off guy when it comes to the QMS. Before I got here 10 months ago it was in shambles. Luckily there is no design and we only process customer owned material. (I say that because compared to design environments, this place is a cakewalk).

    He doesn't at all show initiative to be even remotely interested in the QMS and ISO requirements. Only when I make it big deal. I am the only authority here on maintaining both of those. It would be nice for him to, but it appears hes always too busy..
     
  13. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

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    I had a former president refer to me a "necessary overhead" - thankfully, I've a thick skin (at least professionally) and asked if I could order some business cards with that as my title. A department manager was a bit more nice about my role and referred to me "the company's conscience." (Hah...little did he know that given a choice between the angel or the devil, I'll side with the devil each and every time ;))

    So, he's busy...he's busy being busy. That's one of the reasons I kept audits with him to be more like discussions about strategy and communication. I wanted him to tell me where he thought the company was going and what he believed his role in that was. He may be a hands-off kind of President, but he still the one who determines what that company will do and is therefore a key component within the audit process. Then, with top management (i.e., the department heads in this case), we discussed how KPIs were identified (and goals set), results reviewed, etc. and how all that was communicated both up to the President and down to the next level.

    And then down to the next level, do they understand how they impact the KPIs, goals, etc. and the types (and direction) of communication that happen.

    And down and down and down, until I'm talking with the entry-level guy who started last month and trying to determine if he knows what kind of impact he can have in the organization.

    And does it alllllll cascade and link up neatly?

    One of the best tools I like for this linkage is a tree diagram - it shows how metrics cascade up and down for each level so visually, we can see how the guy who pushes a broom plays a part in whether or not the President's goal(s) is achieved.
     
  14. The PPAP Assassin

    The PPAP Assassin Active Member

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    Excellent! I think they see the value I have added so far.. I hope. Since I've started 10 months ago, claims have trended downward, and revenue has gone up. When my year is up I am asking for a raise! lol... wish me luck?

    Speaking of the tree diagram, I am thinking of developing a value stream map. There has never been any sort of APQP style documentation here, such as control plans, fmea's, gauge R&R's, MSA or SPC studies.. So i wanted to start with a process flow diagram for each process and then use that to create a nice value stream map, when I get the time. Emphasis on "when".... lol

    That should help a lot with getting the president here more on board with QMS and ISO stuff. Seeing the process interactions at "10,000 feet" really puts things into perspective. I'd love for him to ask me questions or show an interest.. Oh well

    Until then, I'll keep plugging away. I think I am viewed here as more of the procedure police haha.. I like label "the companies conscience" that's a good one :) I'll see about getting new business cards with the title.
     
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  15. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    Just to add some guide from ISO 9000:2015 vocabulary:

    3.1.1
    top management

    person or group of people who directs and controls an organization (3.2.1) at the highest level
    Note 1 to entry: Top management has the power to delegate authority and provide resources within the organization.
    Note 2 to entry: If the scope of the management system (3.5.3) covers only part of an organization, then top management refers to those who direct and control that part of the organization.​
     

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