1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
Dismiss Notice
You must be a registered member in order to post messages and view/download attached files in this forum.
Click here to register.

"Non-conforming outputs" - who's happy for this new requirement?

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by Andy Nichols, Feb 19, 2016.

  1. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    5,109
    Likes Received:
    2,562
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    Excellent post, Tony! I totally agree! I've worked in too many situations where non-conforming (paperwork) outputs were rife and caused all manner of problems, meanwhile auditors were only focused on product... This is another reason why management don't get behind "ISO" or CB audits. Until this new requirements many "administrative type" functions never fell within the QMS performance, as they can now!
     
    tony s likes this.
  2. MCW8888

    MCW8888 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2015
    Messages:
    642
    Likes Received:
    198
    Trophy Points:
    42
    Non conforming outputs could be the out of the service that the CB auditor delivers to us. This can be managed by the CB conducting a Client survey everytime the auditor / consultant renders service according to SLA.
     
  3. David Sanabria

    David Sanabria Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2016
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    7
    .... interesting all of the qualifiers that are used.... "IF"

    so let's get back to basic -- PROCESS --- Not sure if Calibration or APQP are processes --- but very important elements of processes.

    Definition of Process...
    1. A combination of people, material, machines, tools, environment, and methods that produce a product or service. [9013]
    2. set of interrelated or interacting activities which transforms inputs into outputs.
      NOTE 1: Inputs to a process are generally outputs of other processes.
      NOTE 2: Processes in an organization are generally planned and carried out under controlled conditions to add value.
      NOTE 3: A process where the conformity of the resulting product cannot be readily or economically verified is frequently referred to as a special process. (ISO 9000:2005) [IAQG-history]
     
  4. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    5,109
    Likes Received:
    2,562
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    If APQP and calibration (often the name used for the whole control of measuring/test equipment process) aren't processes, what are they?
     
  5. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2015
    Messages:
    1,350
    Likes Received:
    1,055
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    Laguna Philippines
    Since we are talking about an ISO 9001:2015 clause, it's more appropriate to use the terminologies in ISO 9000:2015. Thus,

    process is defined as "set of interrelated or interacting activities that use inputs to deliver an intended result"
    Note 1. Whether the "intended result" of a process is called output, product or service depends on the context of the reference.
    output is defined as "result of a process".

    If we take a look at the schematic representation of the elements of a single process in Figure 1 of the ISO 9001:2015 standard, we'll realize that 8.7.1 is not just about nonconforming products and services.
    upload_2016-3-17_21-12-57.png
     
    Andy Nichols likes this.
  6. Padym

    Padym Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2015
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    7
    I'd to point an example for a Service Industry where one of the product offerings is "Service" i.e. management of their IT infrastructure like servers, desktops like proactive patching, alerts monitoring, any issues arise will be corrected / fixed to ensure the least downtime etc.

    So correcting issues (service) are part of the deliverable output of the process should we consider these as Control of non-conforming outputs? The sighted example is widely seen scenario across a typical IT Service Industry organization major product (Service) being fixing and maintenance of their clients IT infrastructure.

    Can somebody throw some light appropriate interpretations under these scenarios?
     
  7. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    5,109
    Likes Received:
    2,562
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    What are YOUR process outputs? Those are the "interpretations" you seek. We are able to "interpret" anything for you. Your organization has processes, which include outputs from these. Your organization can determine if an output is non-conforming. It happens every day. Work is stopped because someone doesn't have the correct/accurate information. Ask your own people - they know the answers, not us!
     
  8. Jamie Lill

    Jamie Lill Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2016
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    7
    If I look at the standard from a small company's perspective

    The organization shall deal with nonconforming outputs in one or more of the following ways:


    a) correction;


    b) segregation, containment, return or suspension of provision of products and services;


    c) informing the customer;


    d) obtaining authorization for acceptance under concession.


    Conformity to the requirements shall be verified when nonconforming outputs are corrected.

    I select c)

    I informed the customer we scraped the part.
    Either by phone email, mail, verbal.
    Then I ask myself did I inform the customer( shall be verified)
    Done!
    All to the standards
     
  9. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    5,109
    Likes Received:
    2,562
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    This for non-conforming product. There are also non-conforming outputs which aren't products.
     
  10. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2015
    Messages:
    1,350
    Likes Received:
    1,055
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    Laguna Philippines
    Correcting issues, troubleshooting, repairs and corrective maintenance are your "services". Performing a back-job due to poor troubleshooting is a sample of "control of nonconforming outputs".