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It’s the planning, not the checklist…

Discussion in 'ISO 19011 - Auditing Management Systems Guidelines' started by Andy Nichols, Jan 22, 2023.

  1. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    The use of checklists is a highly emotive topic in the world of auditing. Here's some insights as to why an auditor should sit down and create a planning document - we could call it a checklist - and not use something they didn't actually author:

    Checklists – Why they are important to create
    Let me share 3 reasons why you need to WRITE IT DOWN

    1. Rehydrate ideas. You can rehydrate your ideas later on as you need them

    2. Calm your mind.

    The Zeigarnik Effect[1] says we tend to hang on to things in our mind, if we don’t
    finish what we start. If you write things down, you free up your mind from worrying about what you forgot or what you need to remember

    3. Organize your thoughts.

    To write things down, you have to think a little bit to find the words or to figure out what it means. Right off the bat, the act of trying to write something down shapes your thoughts. Once it’s down on paper, you can now list things in a way that helps you think. Whether it’s because you cross things off, or prioritize them, or shuffle them to make you feel good, you are in control.

    [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeigarnik_effect
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2023
    Andy Nichols, Jan 22, 2023
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    John C. Abnet and tony s like this.
  2. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    Recently, I have provided some technical assistance to a public sector organization in integrating the risk management guidelines of ISO 31000:2018 into their existing ISO 9001-certified QMS. This organization uses a generic checklist (i.e. ISO 9001 requirements converted to questions that are answerable by yes or no) in carrying out its internal audits. So, like many ISO 9001-certified organizations that are only after the "paper on their wall", their internal audit is just a "tick box" exercise. They were trained to this approach, have no issues with CB auditors and have been certified since the 2008 version of the ISO 9001 standard :eek:.

    Since they wanted to integrate the approaches in risk management into their existing internal audit process, I advised them to change their superficial manner of auditing using a generic checklist. I told them to adopt a "process-approach" in auditing their processes. Their lead internal auditor asked me if I can lend them a template for this "process approach" auditing. I responded that it's not the template or form that you need to change but your approach.

    Of course I may need to provide further coaching to them on how a "process approach" auditing is to be executed, however, my point here is that there are many organizations, like the one above, who rely heavily on their "canned documentation" or templates in implementing their QMS and this kind of practice is somewhat validated and commended by certifying bodies :(.
     
    tony s, Jan 24, 2023
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  3. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    This should make most peoples' hair really curl, shouldn't it, Tony?

    I am currently working up a head of steam to try to get someone (in the right places) to realize that management systems auditing is broken. It's fallen waaay behind tools such as Lean and 6 Sigma. Being an (internal) auditor is not seen as a career enhancement, in the same way as being a Lean Practitioner or SSGB, for example. If it were not for the need to do audits and keep a certificate on the wall, no-one would attend auditor training. Furthermore, a huge industry has grown up "polluting" the training of auditors, using a 35 year old model which hasn't improved or changed to meet the needs of customers! What a paradox! Something people happily describe as a means to find improvement, hasn't itself been improved!
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2023
    Andy Nichols, Jan 26, 2023
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