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Supply Chain Responsibility

Discussion in 'IATF 16949:2016 - Automotive Quality Systems' started by Paul C, May 19, 2022.

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  1. Paul C

    Paul C New Member

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    Hello,

    I am new to a company and am looking for a bit of guidance with a specific issue: my employer is a company that sprays plastic parts for the automotive industry. We are partnered with a mouldings company that essentially is both our vendor and client (they supply the mouldings, we spray them, and send them back to the same company).

    What's currently happening is that if they find a non-conformity which has been sprayed, they instantly throw the 8D our way (without any investigation on their end) and leave us to deal with the end user. I was under the impression that an 'organisation' is responsible for it's entire supply chain i.e. if a non-conformity is at any point in the supply chain, it is still the organisation's responsibility to be reporting that to the client.

    I am genuinely asking if I'm right in thinking this or have I misunderstood something somewhere?

    Any thoughts would be gratefully received.

    Many thanks
     
    Paul C, May 19, 2022
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  2. qmr1976

    qmr1976 Well-Known Member

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    We are in a similar situation with some of our customers. It's a very slippery slope at times because we have to be careful when WE are the ones issuing 8Ds to THEM because they are our customer, as well as our supplier. It's always easier for them to just dismiss it and say it's the supplier's fault, but unfortunately we can't force them to do their due diligence to see if it might be there issue first. The great thing about 8Ds is it drills down to root cause and if you find your process didn't cause the defect, that would be your response and then your customer/vendor would be forced to perform their own investigation to see what happened.
     
    qmr1976, May 19, 2022
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  3. Miner

    Miner Moderator Staff Member

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    Unfortunately there is an attitude prevalent within the US automotive industry OEMs that problem solving consists of:
    1. Assume the supplier is always at fault until the supplier proves beyond a shadow of doubt that they are not at fault.
    2. Next, assume the assembly plant is at fault until they prove beyond a shadow of doubt that they are not at fault.
    3. Ignore the implications that the design may be at fault unless a recall and bad press prove otherwise.
    This attitude (at least step 1) has made it way into the the ranks of many Tier 1 suppliers.
     
    Miner, May 19, 2022
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  4. Paul C

    Paul C New Member

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    Yes qmr1976, that is exactly the situation. The issue we're having is that even when provided with the evidence and a rock solid root cause it leads to just denial. Also, correct with the fact that no investigation happens on their end, it just comes straight to us. I am interested in the supply chain responsibility as well - I have literally just come out of a video call with our 'client' and the end user, and the end user seemed very confused as to why we were there.
     
    Paul C, May 19, 2022
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  5. Paul C

    Paul C New Member

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    Absolutely true. I can testify that this is also the case in the UK, which is where I am reporting from.
     
    Paul C, May 19, 2022
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  6. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes, an untenable situation. Does this relationship provide sufficient revenue? What do these non-conformities cost? Is it worth continuing the relationship or can you find a strategic way out?

    Added in edit:

    It's good to discover the "cost of goods sold", which will take into account the (planned) time/materials and also all those unplanned (frequently costly) activities which are part of dealing with such silliness. We know that organizations put something like a 25% mark-up on their time/materials costing, thinking there's sufficient margin to give a return, but all the rejects, running around touching parts a second time, filling out 8Ds etc. is eroding that 25% - potentially to the point of removing it completely. Can you quantify the parts as cost of goods sold, accurately. That may help your management see it's time to ask for a price increase or find another kind of customer...
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2022
    Andy Nichols, May 19, 2022
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  7. BradM

    BradM Moderator Staff Member

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    Hello Paul! Welcome!

    To me the issue here is are people really (and I mean... really) interested in finding the root cause? I know... everyone will nod their heads YES in a meeting or whatever. But... are they really?

    If there is a failure, the 8D then becomes a tool (if used correctly) to effectively get to the problem. So a sprayed plastic part fails QA. Like... until its investigated, who knows what caused the failure? It may involve multiple things.

    So to me what is needed here is a little more collaboration among the Supply Chain. Whether the investigation originates with your company or theirs, is for the higher ups to decide. But honestly, an initial investigation should lend to who would be more appropriate for handing the investigation. Then, all Supply Chain partners should (for everybody's benefit) get over the defensiveness and such and all cooperate.
     
    BradM, May 24, 2022
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