Can I verify Calibration rather than Certify Calibration?

Hi Mary K and welcome.

Hmmm - that's not uncommon, but is it necessary?

What does this actually mean?

Wow, someone seems to have worked out a way to separate your company from its cash here! As an ISO 9001 certified company, you are allowed to do either calibration and/or verification of measurement equipment. A basic rule of thumb with calibration is the equipment being used should be calibrated if you want to avoid an argument with a customer (outgoing quality) or a supplier (incoming quality). Internally it may be less important between equipment used to set up a process (by an operator for example) and in that case a verification of something like a caliper against a couple of gauge blocks gives confidence in the results they get.

I'd like to know more about the company and what it makes before any concrete recommendations can be made here, however, you can likely save $$$ by stopping this supplier from taking your money, doing something your own people can/should be doing.

 

A distributor? Or manufacturer?

By your customers or by your own procedures?

By procedure? If you verify, is a record made of the equipment a)being used for the inspection and b) used for the verification?

What is intended by "do the paperwork"? Of course, sending equipment for repair and checking makes sense.

No, unless someone wrote that into your QMS. It's not unusual that some type of qualification is written into a job description (like being a "lead auditor") even though ISO doesn't specify it.

 

Hello Mary!! Welcome!

A couple of questions.

1. When the outside company comes on-site each month, are they (let's avoid terminology discussions for a moment and say "check") checking the same instruments each month? Or are different instruments verified each month?
2. When the check the instruments, what percentage are being sent back for adjustment would you say? 50%? 75%?
3. Generally what type of equipment are they checking? Calipers? Thermometers (digital or glass)? Pressure gauges?

 

I'm a little confused, perhaps by the use of terminology. In 9 or 10 cases, "verification" is a quick health check of an item of equipment to ensure it's capable of functioning (to detect any damage etc. since last use). Calibration is the science of determining how the equipment varies from the known standard (usually done under controlled conditions, using equipment of 10:1 higher accuracy etc.) and takes into account factors which affect the readings obtained - which are not considered in "verification".

I haven't heard of verification of calibration. It seems to me that whomever coined that didn't understand the purpose of each. A check of calibration? Seems odd, to me...

 

Oh... I forgot to ask... is this calibration provider ISO 17025 accredited?

 

OK, so as long as it's your terminology and everyone understands what it means, that's fine. (I bet it gives your auditor a headache!)

It's very uncommon to mix the two terms, since they are different activities and when used as your organization does, it further changes the meaning. However, it's the practices which give results, not what they are called (unless there's confusion).

With 2,500 gauges available, are they all in use? It seems to be overkill to me (unless you're operating 24/7/365 kind of thing) to be having someone come in so frequently and doing checks which your own people could/should be doing themselves. I've often found individuals making more of "calibration" work than is financially necessary. Sadly, many management people care not to get involved and a mountain is made out of a molehill. It's all increasing the cost of goods sold and eroding profitability. I'd wager a number of those gauges don't need checking regularly, some need checking MORE regularly and some could simply been checked before their next use. Also, setting calibration based on time passing is an ineffective method. The types of gauges you typically use go out of tolerance due to use, not the passage of time.

You - and someone who knows metrology and calibration systems - should revisit the current practices, IMHO.

 

Hmmm, interesting. My take would have been that it should have reduced the number - but many might be duplicates to keep the line up and running, of course!

Where are you located? Just a city and state will help.

Exactly so. The gravy train may be ending!

Indeed.

 

Mary, might I suggest that you connect with your local state MEP? You might wish to start here with you inquiry. There may be money available to help you under some Federal or State Grant ("Going Pro" is one such grant) Please contact these folks, and tell them that Andy from the Michigan "Center" (MMTC) suggested them to you. https://www.wmep.org/certifications/

Let me know what response you get, please.

 

Thank you!! This information helps.

I guess... my advise would be to maybe not assume something is wrong or inept, until you have information. The vendor you're using may be terrible; they may... be great.

It sounds like you have a lot of instruments that are calibrated, and due to non-stop shifts, are being used on a regular basis. Correct?

The vendor is performing the calibrations and are giving you acceptable calibration certificates. Yes?

If you have an average of 200 instruments a month calibrated and 2 fail, that's 1%; that's a pretty good program.

So what makes you think/ feel your vendor may not be doing you a fair job? Or... why do you feel you're... hesitant to speak with them? Note: There's absolutely nothing wrong if you do. I'm just trying to help you determine your best options for your next step.

 

OK... that's more than fair.

So I would recommend the suggestions and such Andy gave you. Calibration... is not hard per se. But you want to assure you have the main components: controlled standards, traceability, competence, robust/valid procedures, documentation, etc. Again...not hard; but it is some work and requires effort and ongoing management oversight.

Not sure what your instrument mix is. But say... like for micrometers/ calipers, you can set up a recall system in-house for them. Or... if your folks can keep from losing/ damaging gauge blocks, incorporate a quick performance check prior to use. Yes it adds a step, but you then can forgo an every six month calibration, trying to find them, trying to get folks to give them to you, the "these are my calipers; I own them" that sometimes pops up...