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Combined manual?

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by Gypsyjo, Jun 24, 2021.

  1. Gypsyjo

    Gypsyjo Member

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    Hi all,

    I’m new to the forum. I have just started a new job with a company that has a combined business policy manual. (It’s out of date so is on my “to do list” for update)
    Previously I’ve always had separate manuals, for iso9001, 14001 and 45001. So this is a first for me. I wanted to ask people’s opinion on the two, is it preferable to have one combined manual or 3 separate ones?
    If I keep it as one, I’m unsure how to structure it so the sections relate to clauses for each accreditation.

    Any advice?
     
  2. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Welcome! Can I ask why it's "out of date"?
     
  3. pkfraser

    pkfraser Active Member

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    Why do you want a manual - is it just a repository for your various policies, or is it a description of your management system? If it is the latter, why would you want to have more than one description of how the organisation is run?
     
  4. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

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    Hi, Gypsyjo,

    Good questions have already been asked and they hopefully offer some food for thought.

    My own take is this...separate manuals mean you are documenting for documentation's sake. This adds little to no value to the organization.

    Your management system is like a body or machine - there are multiple moving parts that, while perhaps offering up unique purposes, work in harmony and use many of the same resources. On the job, people seldom think "Okay, I need to do this because of quality...and do that because of the environment...and this because of safety." Instead, they tend to think "I do this because it's what we do." This is called organizational culture and this is what you document.

    How? Again...you document your culture and figure out how the requirements fit into it. If you do it the other way around - fit your organization to the standard - people will never see the value of the management system.

    In the past, an organization I worked for was all about Plan-Do-Check-Act. That was the very foundation to everything that we did, in every process and every department. So that became the structure of our integrated business management system manual. Four sections : Plan. Do. Check. Act. An appendix showed where the clauses fit into our culture.

    If your organization continues to use a manual, you could just name the sections with numbers...forget names. Section 1. Section 2. Section 3. And then just say which clauses go into which section. It's easy enough for the common clauses like corrective action. Yes, it can become trick if clauses are not common across multiple standards, but it's still doable.
     
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  5. Gypsyjo

    Gypsyjo Member

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    The previous quality manager left the company several years ago. It was left for a quality engineer to maintain but he didn’t bother, and no longer works for the company. That’s how I came to be employed by them.
     
  6. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Aha! Would it be too far fetched if I guess that each manual is a (simple) restatement of the various standards? Those have since been revised, hence the "out of date"? Or is it some other content, like organization etc?
     
  7. Mehrdad Soltanifar

    Mehrdad Soltanifar Member

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    Hi Gypsyjo,

    Preferable to who?
    Having a manual is not a requirement anymore. So, it's just for documentation purposes. If you want to have an integrated management system, ideally you would have an integrated manual as well.
    However, having separate manuals does not trigger a nonconformance as long as these manuals don't contradict each other.
     
  8. Rustle

    Rustle Member

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    My advice would be to only include content that is useful in the management system document, don't base it on or even reference ISO standards or clauses or it will very quickly become unreadable and of no use or benefit for the purpose intended. Much simpler to have a single overview document rather than different documents for each ISO standard which would be repetitive.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 25, 2021
  9. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    Structuring your manual against the clauses of the standards will cause unnecessary revisions when the standards are revised. Even ISO 9001 clarifies that it is not the intent of the standard when it specified in the Introduction section this statement:

    upload_2021-6-25_15-29-17.png

    An integrated manual can be structured against the high level map of the IMS (QEHS) as shown below:

    upload_2021-6-25_15-42-32.png

    The four categories of processes (i.e. management, quality, EHS, support) serve as the sections of the integrated manual. The processes within each category of process serve as the subsections. The subsections are then supported with narrative descriptions and can have references on the documented procedures that support each process.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2021
  10. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    You don't and shouldn't have it as a goal. (it's certification, btw, not accreditation). Tony has provided excellent guidance
     
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  11. Gypsyjo

    Gypsyjo Member

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    Thanks all, good advice.
    As some of you asked why we want a manual. Well the company has always had one and would like to continue.
     
  12. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    That's one of the best reasons (it's not based on if it's required by ISO, or not). However, make sure that a) it's NOT just a restatement of the various standards and b) contains useful direction/overview type information. You might find helpful, this description of the manual described in this, written by Smartsheet contributor, Margaret Zivisky: https://www.smartsheet.com/iso-9000-certifications-and-training
     
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  13. Rustle

    Rustle Member

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    Why is everyone else allowed to post links to web sites but mine was deleted? :mad:o_O
    I thought this guide was more relevant than both the other links added to this thread which were not removed...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 28, 2021
  14. pkfraser

    pkfraser Active Member

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    The management system is "what you do and how you do it" - the description of the system is not the same thing, and can be presented in all sorts of formats, depending on the organisation and the reason/need for defining and communicating the system. That is where I would start.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 28, 2021
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  15. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Since we do not permit advertising and, for example, the "other links" are not made by consultants attempting to gain from the connection, (I refer to the terms of service), they were removed.
     
  16. Lennart Ljungh

    Lennart Ljungh Member

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    One of the best comments in the forum!