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Management Review

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by xrat86, Jun 2, 2021.

  1. xrat86

    xrat86 Member

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    All,
    I am proposing internally a change to how we conduct our management reviews.

    Instead of having a sit down review all at once meeting (current practice), I am proposing achieving this task by the following means -
    • At the beginning of every month, send out an email related to an item from the agreed to MR agenda
    • Gather inputs and facilitate conversation on the topic
    • Note actions - open, closed, OBE
    • By the end of the month complete discussion on the topic and retain notes and emails as evidence
    • Rinse and repeat the next month for the next topic
    • IF events occur related to an agenda item outside of the discussion month, capture them to take credit for the good things we do (this is a bit utopian I know)
    Current practice is solely done for conformance to the standard and adds no value, we are a small company and management consists of the 2 owners that are integral in the day to day operations. My thoughts on my proposed scheme are to lessen the burden an anyone and hopefully achieve positives for the organization and not just compliance.

    If we adopt this scheme, would it pass muster with an audit (in your humble opinion)?

    Thanks in advance.
     
    xrat86, Jun 2, 2021
    #1
  2. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    Good day @xrat86 ;
    Sadly, the type of Management Review your organization is currently engaged in...
    -" ...all at once.."
    - "..solely ...for conformance..."
    -" ...adds no value"...

    ..is all too common.


    it is astute of you to recognize this. Obviously there is nothing "wrong" with the "all at once" approach. However, this is akin to looking at the scoreboard after the match is over. Too late and not frequent enough to make adjustments.

    As you know, ISO 9001 has very few stipulations for how a management review should look. A paraphrase of the requirements is as follows...
    - Shall occur.
    - Planned intervals
    - Verify effectiveness of the management system
    - A list of inputs for "consideration"
    - Outputs that are actionable
    - Retention of documented evidence of management review.


    Most organizations I work with have ongoing "reviews" in the form of shift start meetings, daily leadership meetings, quarterly operations meetings, semi-annual business planning meetings, etc..etc... In most cases, the aggregate of those events constitutes all requirements of Management Review (although retention of documented evidence is sometimes lacking).
    Keep in mind that there is not even a requirement for a "meeting" of any type.

    My recommendation is to take a look at what your leadership already DOES to review the effectiveness of the management system, including the "inputs" stated in clause 9.3.2.
    It would be surprising to me (except for maybe the documented evidence?) if your organization is not already accomplishing "management review" on a regular basis.

    Hope this helps.
    Be well.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2021
    John C. Abnet, Jun 2, 2021
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  3. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm with @John C. Abnet. The only caveat I have to offer is that I believe the following:

    - Process Owners do the preparation and (most of the) talking about the performance of their process in meeting goals and objectives, and what they are doing about CI/CA
    - Internal Audits are there to validate the results of the process (independently confirming the QMS is being implemented to achieve results.)
    - The timing of reviews (whatever the method used) doesn't have to be done on a calendar basis - do them when there's sufficient reason to (which will impact the internal audits, too)
     
    Andy Nichols, Jun 2, 2021
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  4. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

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    I agree that reviews are already likely being done on more than one level, each with a different degree of detail and the reviewed metrics may differ.

    I have also seen rotating meetings being scheduled to focus on a given subject. Over the period the entire system would get covered. There is nothing in ISO 9001 that forbids this. The standard says "at planned intervals" and even refers to documented information only "as evidence of the results of management reviews."

    Management reviews are too often under-utilized and under-appreciated because they are perceived to have no value to the business - just an exercise to "satisfy the auditor." The remedy is to make the meetings overall relevant to the business. Make them value-added to the managers. In doing so, you may find they are reviewing issues and concerns of interested parties, resources and changes. It can be our secret that in doing so they are conforming to the standard after all.
     
    Jennifer Kirley, Jun 3, 2021
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  5. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    @Jennifer Kirley is correct on the value proposition of reviews. Can I ask if your organization does some form of periodic financial review? The correlation between that and the QMS review is very strong, IMHO. It can help to model that if it's a) done at all and b) done well (value-added)
     
    Andy Nichols, Jun 3, 2021
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  6. xrat86

    xrat86 Member

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    "Process Owners do the preparation and (most of the) talking about the performance of their process in meeting goals and objectives, and what they are doing about CI/CA" - this makes so much sense....sad to say I only came to that conclusion after reading your post

    "Can I ask if your organization does some form of periodic financial review?" - yes but I am not privy to that.

    Thank you all for the insight and comments, always appreciated.
     
    xrat86, Jun 3, 2021
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  7. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Understood. It might be sufficient to have someone explain the basics and how frequently these reviews occur. It's a good model, in my experience - no so much the details but the flow of discussion.
     
    Andy Nichols, Jun 3, 2021
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  8. Leonid

    Leonid Well-Known Member

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    @xrat86 Please refer to ISO/TS 9002:2016 "Quality management systems - Guidelines for the application of ISO 9001:2015". Its section 9.3 "Management review" considers various arrangements for MR.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 9, 2021
    Leonid, Jun 7, 2021
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  9. Mahaveer Jain

    Mahaveer Jain Member

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    Usually what you have termed here is some what performance evaluation or improvement. As far as i know this wont meet the standard requirment of MRM. Still you can conduct this monthly and prepare MOM. and during MRM you can refer this meeting MOMs instead again reviewing performace however audits summary should a part of MRM that has to be ensured
     
    Mahaveer Jain, Jun 9, 2021
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  10. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Why not? There's nothing I can see which prevents an effect review.
     
    Andy Nichols, Jun 9, 2021
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  11. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    Does MRM mean Management Review Meeting? and MOM mean Minutes of the Meeting? Clause 9.3 does not require organizations to have a meeting. Reviewing the QMS can be done without a meeting. MOMs, usually, provide the record of what transpired during the meeting - NOT the "evidence of the results of management reviews".
     
    tony s, Jun 11, 2021
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