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Complaint or NCR?

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by Qualmx, May 26, 2019.

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  1. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

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    Having done work on systems with installation of valves and torques, I would not all incorrect angle position silly, nor incorrect torque. If the requirements were specified and not followed, then there were nonconformities in installation and the installation needs to be addressed. Top management showing up with a letter expressing complaint should also be investigated; first to confirm the claims are valid, and second to ensure they are not repeating an issue you are already working on. NCRs need data, not vague accusations.
     
    Jennifer Kirley, May 30, 2019
    #21
  2. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Why set kpis on things you don't want? Do you set a kpi on the number of flat tires you have in a month?

    Why don't you spend time on making your quality planning process more robust to PREVENT these things occurring? Who cares what the standard calls stuff? Being driven by the standard and its terminology is where you are getting confused. Make your processes more robust and see the problems disappear, not spend time on counting and classifying errors as NCRs or complaints.
     
    Andy Nichols, May 30, 2019
    #22
    RoxaneB and tony s like this.
  3. Krishna VVA

    Krishna VVA New Member

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    Hi.
    Hi.. Any product or service if it does not meet the specification of the customer, it need to be treated as a complaint. Now coming to NCR, an NCR is one which describes how a product or service is not meeting the intended purpose. Every NCR from customer need to be recorded and evaluated for it's relevance. As you gather further information on the NCR some times you may realise that the issue reported in well with in specification or there is no specification for that parameter. If there is a specification and the product or service is failing to meet it it shall be treated as complaint. If there is no specification you may take up with the customer to have one. However all NCRs shall be recorded as they help you to understand the possibilities of failure and will help you in strengthening the process and controls.
     
    Krishna VVA, May 30, 2019
    #23
  4. hogheavenfarm

    hogheavenfarm Well-Known Member

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    I disagree here. A NCR is what it says it is, a non conformance to specifications and requirements. A complaint is more subjective (doesn't fit well, looks are not as expected, etc). In many cases, the manufacturer is making a part to the customers drawings. If it returns a complaint that it is not fit for purpose, then we simply point back to the customers drawings and specifications. If we meet those, I do not care if the part does not meet the intended purpose, we did not design the part, only built it to the specifications given. I would stand by my Certificate of Compliance whether it worked or not. If there was an error and a defective part escaped, then that would indeed be an NCR, and would be tracked through our system and evident in our KPI's.
    A complaint must be investigated to determine whether the issue is one of compliance (in which case it becomes an NCR), or whether there is an opportunity to improve the product design to better suit the customer. This is an OFI, not an NCR. We would not track any complaints that are not determined to be defects on our part.
     
    hogheavenfarm, May 30, 2019
    #24
    Qualmx likes this.
  5. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

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    At the end of the day, it's about having a system that works for your organization. In my case, having complaints as a type of nonconformance worked. We had a much broader view of all types of nonconformities, their sources, their costs, and so on.

    A complaint is not always subjective. If I order a hamburger and the restaurant hands me a hot dog, I'm going to complain...and I have the receipt to show that my specification/requirement was not met.

    There is also worth considering the cost of arguing or disagreeing with your customer. Customer's may not always understand what they are asking for...or change their requirements without letting us know. There were times that we decided the cost of just keeping the client experience as positive as possible cost less than the time it would take us to investigate...or the cost of losing their business if they didn't get what they wanted.

    Yes, we had our frequent complainers and they were the ones where we possibly dispute their claim in the hopes that they would go elsewhere, but this was a decision to be made my top management and the data that we captured in our nonconformance log was vital to supporting their ability to make this decision.
     
    RoxaneB, May 31, 2019
    #25
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  6. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

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    This is very good advice.

    I see two issues here: one is about NCRs versus complaints, and the other is about goals/targets/KPIs. Here I will address goals/targets/KPIs. If you want to make a goal/target/KPI for customer satisfaction because you have a process called "Customer Processes" or similar, it makes sense to set a target that is specific enough to recognize true improvement. The "SMART" method gives guidance.

    I am not affiliated with MindTools.
     
    Jennifer Kirley, Jun 1, 2019
    #26
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