7.2 Competence.

We realize that the 3 examples of nonconformances are not the root cause, Yukon. What we are saying is that issuing one nonconformance for a lack of training on the part of the OP is not the most appropriate nonconformance to be written against your examples. You are assuming that it is the OP's lack of training that lead to your 3 examples. You are assuming a lack of training is the root cause and wording your nonconformance in a very leading way.

You do not know why the Quality Objectives are inconsistent with the Quality Policy. You are assuming it's a lack of training on the part of the OP, but for all you know, it could be because top management overruled the OP and created quality objectives that they wanted, regardless of the direction indicated by the OP.

You do not know why Top Management wasn't involved in the setting of Quality Objectives. You are assuming it's a lack of training on the part of the OP, but for all you know, maybe they just don't care, despite the OP's highlighting of the risk and importance of such measurables.

You do not know why identified outsourced processes weren't subject to an internal audit You are assuming it's a lack of training on the part of the OP, but for all you know, there is another process in place to ensure the organization's requirements are met or maybe they lost the records of the audits and just said "Yeah, we didn't do them."

To identify your three examples of nonconformances and cite them all under competence (i.e., the OP lacks it) is making an assumption on your part regarding the root cause.

 

While I'm happy that your client was pleased, my own experience has been with organizations that focus more on quality of findings versus quantity. We would rather having findings against actual requirements than something the auditor believes is the issue. If this means more valid findings, than one which crosses that line over into root cause (without any evidence pointing us in that direction), so be it. I have been fortunate to work with organizations who are more focused on developing and sustaining a management system that integrates into our business culture, rather than for organizations that twist and turn to please the CB auditors.

It really surprises us that you so casually accept it to be permissible to assume the root cause is training. If that was truly the case for client, you failed to properly articulate how the evidence pointed in that direction.

So glad that they resolved the issues to YOUR satisfaction rather than to the documented requirements.

 

If you are not going to answer the question, what value does your discourse bring for our readers?

 

OK. I think this thread has ran its course and has begun to drift from the core questions. Closed for the time being.