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NCR/CAPA/CAR/CRN

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by jamescrockford, Mar 15, 2018.

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  1. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

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    Thank god your auditor can't "consult." She's wrong, way wrong. Ignore her and move on. Good luck.
     
    Golfman25, Feb 26, 2019
    #21
  2. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    On your next surveillance audit, tell your CB not to send this auditor.:mad:
     
    tony s, Feb 27, 2019
    #22
  3. James D.

    James D. New Member

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    Hi Roxane and Graham I thank you for your quick reply and detailed view on the matter, your suggestions will surely help me greatly in addressing changes in the QMS in the days to come, I like the idea of minor and major instances an will see how to incorporate it into my form, and the additional category and sources and I will see probably for a month how it moves along in the system.

    Graham I'm glad to hear that from the owner of the ccompany you are working for as I share the same belief with him regarding the services I provide.

    Can I just say that implementing a QMS would be so much easier if everyone was on board with the idea of product and service improvement and not just the whole we need that certificate to look good

    Golfman and Tony, I just keep telling myself maybe she's new or maybe she just doesnt get the point of a QMS gial being efficient and effective, simple and straightforward, not just a whole bunch of forms for record keeping and making my emlpoyees lives miserable with redundant paperwork.
     
    James D., Feb 28, 2019
    #23
  4. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

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    Just keep in mind that "minor" and "major" are old-school terms that aren't really in use any more. They are easy words to say however but could refer to when a nonconformance is a "correction" (minor) or "corrective action" (major).

    The whole point, as you said, is to make something efficient and effective. I would also offer up that it must add value (taking from lean here). If all it does is make work and/or make an external auditor's life easier, then it's probably not the system for your organization.
     
    RoxaneB, Feb 28, 2019
    #24
  5. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    There are times I would like my CB auditors to read from this forum. ;)
     
    tony s, Mar 1, 2019
    #25
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  6. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    I wouldn't bother! You will be digging a hole for yourself. Experience shows that, if the content of the report doesn't "sit well" with the management as a "major" or "minor", they will argue or diminish or refute the issue. Frankly, it's an external audit practice (only) and has no place in an internal situation.
     
    Andy Nichols, Mar 1, 2019
    #26
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  7. judegu

    judegu Well-Known Member

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    Sir. In my company, we kind of categorize the quality issues (N/C, such as customer complaint, internal quality accident) using the "large", "medium", "small" scale. I think it is quite similar to the "MA", "MI" thing. However we do this kind of category based on the quality cost of each case. I think it is quite useful to focus on the main player on the ground. What is your opinion about it?
     
    judegu, Mar 4, 2019
    #27
  8. judegu

    judegu Well-Known Member

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    Hi RoxaneB. I am a little confused now. MA and MI are still in use, right? BTW correction for MI and corrective action for MA is surely a good way to see the difference between this two.:)
     
    judegu, Mar 4, 2019
    #28
  9. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    Yes for CB auditors. It is included as one of the terminologies in ISO/IEC 17021-1:2015 (Requirements for bodies providing audit and certification of management systems). For internal audit, it is not mandatory. However, you can consider the guidelines specified in ISO 19011:2018 Section 6.4.8 which says that: "Nonconformities can be graded depending on the context of the organization and its risks. This grading can be quantitative (e.g. 1 to 5) and qualitative (e.g. minor, major)."
     
    tony s, Mar 4, 2019
    #29
    judegu likes this.
  10. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    I already posted that opinion.
     
    Andy Nichols, Mar 4, 2019
    #30
  11. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Sounds like whomever wrote that hasn't actually done it...
     
    Andy Nichols, Mar 4, 2019
    #31
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