Quality Manual: Long and informative vs. Basic and Minimal?

I am reviewing a new internal draft of our Quality manual which is 37 pages. It is very comprehensive and goes into depth on every section of the ISO 9001:2015 standard. In some ways, it is almost like a Quality Manual AND a training manual.

Is this a mistake to make the manual so comprehensive? Does it open too many cans of worms? Does it expose us to issues with auditors in the future? Or should we strive to keep the manual as short and to the point as possible?

Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks

 

I prefer as short and sweet as possible. The bulk of our manual is made up of a cross reference between the standard and where we address the standard in our system. Went from a worthless recitation of the clauses to something actually useful. Good luck.

 

Good day @Rick Schellenberg ;
As others have stated, it will likely become a burden/liability to create an maintain the document you describe.

THIRTY SEVEN PAGES? ! , would be my typical response to such a description.

Be selfish. The ultimate goal of 9001 is to ensure that the organization is operating in a framework that addresses the defined needs of an organization and its customer(s). Create only documentation that is beneficial to the organization. Ensure that the management system is constructed in manner that will allow it to sustain and thrive even if/when key members of the team leave. Don't EVER create or do anything for the auditor. For each document being considered, as the questions...
1- How will this benefit the organization"?
2- Is what we are doing being done in a manner that meets the requirements of the standard?

Hope this helps.
Be well

 

Since ISO 9001:2015 does not require a quality manual, I make use of the 2008 requirements should I need to prepare one.

4.2.2 Quality Manual
The organization shall establish and maintain a quality manual that includes
a) the scope of the quality management system, including details of and justification for any exclusions (see 1.2),
b) the documented procedures established for the quality management system, or reference to them, and
c) a description of the interaction between the processes of the quality management system.
​

If you follow the above statement, it is very clear that you don't need to explain how your organization satisfies each clause of the standard. Even the Introduction of ISO 9001:2015 stated this:

It is not the intent of this International Standard to imply the need for:
— uniformity in the structure of different quality management systems;
— alignment of documentation to the clause structure of this International Standard
​

The quality manual provides a general description of your organization's QMS and the various processes employed within the scope. It would add value by helping the process owners to understand their roles within the entire QMS. So, create a manual that is more user-friendly than auditor-friendly.

 

Hello
İ am working in a group company. And group sends us signed policy. Does it need to be signed again by our general manager

 

As tony pointed out, the 2015 does not require any, but in my experience, customers frequently do. I just finished a "desk audit" from a Tier 1 customer that not only requires the latest version of our QM, but then included about ten pages of direct "yes/no, state where that requirement is in your manual" questions regarding our quality system. Of note, several questions asked for the "required process documents" for the main categories in 9001:2008. The very first question was "Does your company have a quality manual?" before it proceeded to ask for all the "required documentation". I answered yes, (because we do), then wrote right across the question "ISO 9001:2015 does not require a quality manual!". Customers seem to always be the last to keep up with current changes in ISO. I still get these audits asking questions directly from the 2000 version.
As a result, we have stayed with our current (2008) manual, but have added some changes reflecting our adoption of the 2015 version, (ie "thou shalt not audit thine own work", and our interpretation of "emotionally protective workplace", etc.
Customers seem to be happy with an "expanded" QM, seems to be what they expect, so depending on your needs, you can have "none", "minimal", or "throw the book at them" sizes.

 

Thank you

 

According to ISO 10013:2001, a quality manual depend on the size of an organization. In 4.4.1 of ISO 10013, the quality manual content should be " Title and scope, Table of content, Review, Approval and Revision, Quality Policy and Objectives, Organization, Responsability and Authority, References, Quality Management System Description (ISO 9001 of courses), Appendices,...
According to ISO 19011:2018, auditors must determine whether the documented information provides correct information which content conforms to other reluable standards...and ISO 10013: 2001 defines Guidelines for Quality Management System Documentation...

 

2001: almost 20 years ago - ah, those were the days! We need to save the trees. After all, people like to look at trees - not so sure about quality manuals...

 

Honestly, I am also waiting for a new revision...

Sincerely,