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PROCESS HELP

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by NattyG, Mar 20, 2018.

  1. NattyG

    NattyG Member

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    So, our company is a steel stockholder and supplier.

    I'm reviewing the QMS and we have 20 Auditable processes, we're seeing a consultant tomorrow but a show of hands how many think this is too many?

    It seems to me really overcomplicated- I have twenty audits to do before our annual certification not to mention the QMS manual to rewrite.

    I'm losing my mind a little over here, help!!
     
    NattyG, Mar 20, 2018
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  2. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

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    Group them into major processes. We have 6.

    So, for example, purchasing can include Orders, supplier selection, supplier performance evaluation.
     
    Golfman25, Mar 20, 2018
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  3. NattyG

    NattyG Member

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    I was honestly thinking five or four even, I've grouped it like this-

    1. Leadership & commitment
    2. Sales & customer processes
    3. Production service & provision
    4. Evaluation & improvement processes

    Am I completely on the wrong track here? I'm such a rookie still!
     
    NattyG, Mar 20, 2018
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  4. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

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    Those will work.
    Leadership would contain all your business planning, context of org., risk analysis stuff.
    Sales would be all your product realization plans.
    Production is making the stuff.
    Evaluation and improvement is all the measuring, auditing, and continual improvement.

    You may want to separate out purchasing. I assume you buy from mills and such.
    And you can always include a "support" process which can catch those that don't categorize well. Our deals with documented information stuff, maintenance, and such.
     
    Golfman25, Mar 20, 2018
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  5. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Leadership and commitment isn't a process! Take your business and think what happens to transform inputs to outputs. Start there. Think "B to B", what supports those processes etc.
     
    Andy Nichols, Mar 20, 2018
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  6. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

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    What is the difference if you have 6 with all manner of activities/subprocesses, or 18 or more? What is the value of bunching everything into 6 processes? The entire management system needs to be audited anyway.

    I have audited a site with 6 processes, but it was very small (10 persons) and its operations were very simple office-based services. Most have over 12. Andy is right: look at your activities that take inputs and transform then into outputs. The only place I can imagine Leadership and commitment doing this is with management review.
     
    Jennifer Kirley, Mar 21, 2018
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  7. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't get caught up in the semantics of the name. Sure leadership isn't a process. But planning where leadership shows its commitment is.

    Grouping them makes it easier to keep organized, imo.
     
    Golfman25, Mar 21, 2018
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  8. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Management commitment is demonstrated through process ownership, not ONLY planning. It's the whole thing. Especially being responsible for recognizing when their process doesn't perform, taking responsibility for that and initiating action. Sitting back and (only) planning is easy...
     
    Andy Nichols, Mar 21, 2018
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  9. NattyG

    NattyG Member

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    Just to clarify today we've met with our consultant.

    We aren't getting rid of any of the 19 processes (even though I think its overkill but whatever) however we are grouping the processes together when we audit the following categories:

    Sales
    purchasing
    works operations
    Auxiliary

    So I won't have to "re-invent the wheel" in order to reduce the volume of audits that I have to do. It creates a logic check of how our quality system is working and identifies weak areas of how the processes are working with each other.

    Granted leadership isn't a process however at the time I couldn't think how to word it- Auxiliary is the solution.
     
    NattyG, Mar 21, 2018
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  10. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

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    Coming from a steel industry background, we divided our processes out into core (i.e., directly impacted our ability to consistently meet) stakeholder requirements) and support (i.e., indirect impact to our ability to consistently meet stakeholder requirements). We had more than 19 processes, but we created a visual that made sense to us (especially since the visual was to help us talk about us).

    While I understand your reference to reducing the volume of audits, I admit that I'm not a fan of spreading audits out over time. I'd rather do a full systems audit because:

    a. That's how the external audit flows;
    b. We can follow a product back through the entire system (grab some examples of finished product and walk it back through the process);
    c. It allows us to assess the interaction between processes (e.g., document control process and production process); and,
    d. It provides us with an overall picture regarding the state/health of the system.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2018
    RoxaneB, Mar 21, 2018
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  11. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    We categorized our processes into Core, Management and Support processes. All the processes on the three categories are audited. See the system map below:
    upload_2018-3-28_14-30-19.png
     
    tony s, Mar 28, 2018
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