1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
Dismiss Notice
You must be a registered member in order to post messages and view/download attached files in this forum.
Click here to register.

Looking into a new certifying body

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by k_richer, Jun 23, 2017.

  1. k_richer

    k_richer Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2016
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Hey everyone, me again

    After my last post about our CB requiring the "Document Review" audit, i've contacted them to ask them why this is needed,
    and I've also had a conversation with some of the higher-ups about switching CB's.

    I've contacted two so far, SGS and BSI, but i was wondering if any other fellow Canadians have any recommendations.

    Thanks,

    Ketrina
     
  2. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    5,086
    Likes Received:
    2,553
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    I used to work for NQA and they have a Canadian office. 97% client retention is their main selling point. Middle of the road pricing, well known globally, no hidden fees. Contact Chantale Farley for more information: 514 707 7720 or www.nqa.com
     
  3. k_richer

    k_richer Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2016
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Awesome thanks!
     
  4. Nikki

    Nikki Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    268
    Likes Received:
    141
    Trophy Points:
    42
    Location:
    Maine
    FWIW - We use NQA as our registrar and have had a great relationship with them since 2008!
     
    Andy Nichols likes this.
  5. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2015
    Messages:
    1,350
    Likes Received:
    1,054
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    Laguna Philippines
    We have just been audited by SGS and we've gone through two(2) stages. First was for document review and the 2nd was the certification audit.
     
  6. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    5,086
    Likes Received:
    2,553
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    That's the IAF accredited process, Tony. Otherwise, how was the experience? Scheduling? Office contact? Auditor match to your business? Auditor abilities?
     
  7. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2015
    Messages:
    1,350
    Likes Received:
    1,054
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    Laguna Philippines
    During the Stage 1, the auditor is a bit imposing. He prescribed that risks should be determined after the quality objectives are established. Our approach on RBT is by using the concept during our strategic and operational planning. We set our strategic directions to achieve the organization's vision thru SWOT analysis. The strategic directions are then supported by measurable objectives. In planning for the operation, RBT was evident thru our Risk/Opportunities & Actions (ROA) analysis. The ROA tool was designed to identify failures on our procedures (ala FMEA) and controls are then determined/enhanced. Going back to the CB auditor's prescription, I believe there's a profound reason why the standard mentions 6.1 first before 6.2. He also insisted that internal and external risks must be identified. But of course we know that the standard mentioned about internal and external issues must be considered instead and they are well covered in our SWOT analysis. So we hold on to our approach and presented the same during the Stage 2. Surprisingly, we didn't have problems with him about RBT during the Stage 2.
     
    Andy Nichols likes this.
  8. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    5,086
    Likes Received:
    2,553
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    I fear this lack of knowledge is not isolated, in my experience...
     
  9. Nick1

    Nick1 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    7
    I don't know about Northern America but here in Holland the documentation audit is pretty much required. I far as my knowledge goes this is obligatory by the Dutch Accreditation Council. Could very well be that this is common practice around the world.
     
  10. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    5,086
    Likes Received:
    2,553
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    A stage 1 isn't just a documentation audit (especially since ISO 9001 doesn't require anything like as much documentation) and IS required by ISO/IEC 17021 - the accredited CB audit process requirement.
     
  11. Nick1

    Nick1 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    7
    Thanks for the clarification Andy, you are absolutely right. Though I still see quite some auditor struggle with this, which leads to an audit that feels kinda similar as that of a documentation audit. As in where is your stakeholder analysis (expect a document), where is your Context Analysis (expect something like a document) etc. Hopefully you have had some better experiences.
     
  12. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    5,086
    Likes Received:
    2,553
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    This is in large part due the the relationship between the auditor and the CB they represent. CBs don't want to spend $$ on training their auditors. Some (contract) auditors don't want to give up a day earning $$ to go to training, even if it IS offered by the CB.
     
  13. Chris55

    Chris55 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2017
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Location:
    Dubai
    SGS and BSI are trusted certification body. I would suggest you to go with one, if you need professional services.
     
  14. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2015
    Messages:
    1,350
    Likes Received:
    1,054
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    Laguna Philippines
    Hate to say this...but one of these two CBs was the one we had and that I mentioned "imposing". (see post#7)
     
    Nikki and Andy Nichols like this.
  15. k_richer

    k_richer Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2016
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Thanks for everyone's responses!

    We ended up going with NQA, hate to say it, but mostly because they were the cheapest option.

    SGS was INSANELY expensive, it actually boggled my mind.

    BSI never even got back to me (I had used them at a previous company i worked for, so I was kind of shocked by that, but whatever.)

    The main reason I wanted to change was because the company I worked for had been following these auditors around for almost 20 years from different CB to CB.
    And last year was my first experience with them and they seemed like such tools, I was very unimpressed with them.
    I got a call in May saying they were moving to ANOTHER new CB, and that they would send me the quote,
    they were trying to get us to do an audit like at the beginning of August, even though I kept saying that doesnt work for anyone in my company because EVERYONE is on holidays (myself included).
    They kept raising their prices, and I literally disliked them so much, and thought it was insane what we were doing so I convinced everyone it was a good idea to change CB's, and we did!
     
  16. Chris55

    Chris55 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2017
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Location:
    Dubai
    Okay. Have a tried British Assessment Bureau?